Them

A visual comparison.

The first pic is day one in the aerospring.

The second pic is the third day.

The third pic is the fifth day, which was last night at 8:00 o'clock.

The fourth pic is the sixth day, which is today at 4:00 o'clock, twenty hours later after the flush and nute change.

Some of the plants still have lazystemitis, caused by being under floro's too long while sprouting. If they continue to lean I'll call it "self induced training".

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DrDankman

you are off to a great start this time around.. growth rates are looking great!

from what i understand I think that VPUR's so hypercritical about everything, because he was given bad information and his crops suffered from it, and wasted a lot of money...

I honestly think he has everyone's best interest at heart, and doesn't want to see them go threw the troubles that he did..

i think he just might be a little misunderstood, and come off in the wrong tone... but he does usually have great advice, and he knows his shit.

iv found if i dont take what he says as a personal attack and that hes saying everything im doing is wrong..
rather he is explaining the idea situation

we can all learn a lot from each other!
whether we agree about some things or not its all good... as long as we exchange our info and experiences we can all benefit.

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bluecheese

I knew I'd seen it before, but buzz helped me find this link to the Lucas formula.

I use it in Hempy buckets for flowering, but I don't know how it'd work it aero. I find the ppm to be too high for Hempies, so I usually go 0-5-10 in flowering.

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Them

Thanks bluecheese, I'll take a gander at it as soon as I finish this post. Gimme some cheese!

Hey Doc, I know what you mean. I think one can share incite without being disrespectful I'm glad vpur is a member here. I've read his work and he enjoys a lot of success.

He criticized me harshly, for using the frozen water bottles instead of a chiller, to the point of comparing me to "people like me" who had caused him the grief to which you mention. Sorry dude...that ant my fault!

I can't document this statement but I do wonder if there is not a grower out there who read about or heard about the bottles, and because they can't afford a chiller ($350.00) the frozen water bottles are the only thing keeping their res temps under control. But they are more work. You do have to keep changing them periodically as they thaw out.

Any crop will fail if you neglect the system.

If I owe vpur an apology, here it is :

Them

Hey BC, I went to the link you provided. It was interesting. I'm thinking about flushing again and trying his mix.. In fact I think I have some nute burn already.

Today's readings;

PPM 500

Ph 5.8

water temp 73f. Lights out during the heat of the day. 10" fan in front of the AC to force the cold air to the bottom of the tote. Added two bottles at noon.

Plants are growing. Some are getting big and bushy and some are smaller and uuummmm bushy?

I'll have pics up soon.

Them

Here is the Lucas Formula...


General Hydroponics Flora Series Feeding Strategy - Lucas Formula

G-M-B (Grow-Micro-Bloom)
0-5-10 - For Vegetative cycle (18/6)
0-8-16 - For Flowering cycle (12/12)

The numbers above indicate the number of milliliters (ml) of Flora Grow, Micro or Bloom formulas that I use in one gallon (US Liquid) of nutrients.

You will notice I dont use any of the Flora “Grow” formula, do not need to, the Flora "Micro" provides plenty of Nitrogen.

There are two ways to work with this formula:

1. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected water solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. After adding back an amount of water equal to the amount of your reservoir capacity you should change the reservoir and put in fresh solution.

2. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected 100% strength nutrient solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. Continue to use this nutrient solution without dumping the tank unless the PPM rises above acceptable levels.

Between vegetative and flowering cycles you should dump your nutrients, then flush (possibly with Clearex) to remove salt buildups, then change to the other feeding program. Always shake your GH nutrient bottles before using them!

For young plants, just transplanted into the hydro setup, give them 50% strength nutrient mix to prevent overfeeding them while their young. Gradually bring up the mix to full strength as they grow over the next few weeks or so.

The lucas formula is normally intended for use with RO or near 0 PPM water.

NOTE: The Lucas formula eliminates the need for Epsom salts to correct (Magnesium) Mg deficiencies in most normal feeding programs recommended by manufacturers. Cannabis needs a lot of Magnesium to thrive.

The Flora Micro is providing the Nitrogen and the Magnesium in the proper balance, thus there is no need for the Grow formula and little or no room under the maximum acceptable ppm limit of 1600 @ 0.7 conversion.

Calculated EC/TDS levels:

EC microsiemen:
0-4-8: 946 µS
0-5-10: 1184 µS
0-8-16: 1894 µS

TDS @ 0.5 conversion:
0-4-8 = 473 ppm
0-5-10 = 592 ppm
0-8-16 = 947 ppm

TDS @ 0.7 conversion:
0-4-8 = 663 ppm
0-5-10 = 829 ppm
0-8-16 = 1326 ppm

Addback Calculator - (For Advanced Users)

Say you were running the 0-8-16 formula, at 0.7 conversion with a 22 gallon res. When you first fill it up, your ppm will be around 1330.

Now you have been growing for a week, and some of the water has been taken up by the plants, some has evaporated, and now your res is at 947 ppm. You need to get your ppm from 947 to 1330. Here is the equation:

((target - current) / target) * 8 ml per gallon * res gallons = Flora Micro (ml) double this figure to get Flora Bloom (ml)

Example:

((1330 - 947) / 1330) * 8 * 22
(383 / 1330) * 8 * 22
0.3 * 8 * 22 = 53 ml Flora Micro

53 ml Flora Micro, double that and you get 106 ml Flora Bloom. So 53 ml Flora Micro and 106 ml Flora Bloom to add back to your 22 gallon res to get you from 947 to 1330.

Using Hard Water GH Micro

I had been experimenting with using the Hard water Micro as a substitute for the normal Flora Micro, this to account for my hard 350 PPM water and the lack of a large enough RO filter at the time. It has worked well for me. I just kept my reservoir below 1150 PPM @ .5 conversion and its all good.

One tip - do not pH down this stuff, the hard water micro will drop pH gradually over the next 24 hours, for example I mix up a batch, it is at like 6.2, the next day, its at 5.6-5.8 after running in the system for a while. If I pH downed that to 5.7 before putting it in the system, it ended up as low as 4.8-5.2 by the next day.

My conclusion, the hard water micro was buffering the alkaline crud in my water, it just doesnot do it ASAP fast like the phosphoric acid.

Them

After rereading the info stated above. It seems pretty simple, one part micro, two parts bloom and no grow. Mix these proportions to the desired PPM level and their you have it.

Is their anyone here who can tell me what is up with the older fan leaves? I think it is nute burn, but I would like more opinions. I've been to the nursery but nothing looks quite like this.

I can't take a pic right now, a friend has my camera. This photo is a few days old. All plants are showing distress to some degree, some worse than others. But at the same time the new growth looks green and healthy. I've had this problem at this stage before. The plants went on to do great, but no won wants their plants to look burned or misunderstood. But to understand what I think I know will take some time on my part.

Help me out if you can, thanks.

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vpur

The one thing about the Lucas formula. It provides all the macro nutrients but depending on the brand, it misses out on micronutrients.

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Them

What about General Hydroponics nutes? That's the kind I use and the brand the formula is based on.

vpur

I think the lucas formula is great place to start. It kinda takes a 3part fert and makes it a 2 part. There are micronutrients in the GH products that are not listed, im sure of that. Either that or they are far behind the quality of other brands. My FHD nutrients have a far bigger garaunteed analysis then those on my old GH bottles.

You'll still get most of those micro nutrients, thats why you add micro. I was just saying proportionally they might not be the perfect mix any more. But thats neither here nor there. I just want you guys to know that there is a reason its a 3 part not a 2 part.

Cygon is the guy that can really answer all that jazz. As a horticulturalist, hes been experimenting mixing his own nutes. So he definately knows more about the micro macros of nutrients then me.

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