viny

hi girls ;o)

just a little question on the hybrid vigor .

I see a lot of person whom are afraid to pay for F2 generation seeds (like if am I right nirvana seeds by example) cause they would expect to have THE Monster Plant wich could result from opposite strains cross .

Here is my question to a breeder :

hybrid vigor will exist only if the parents of the crossing are pure strain , am I right ?

on the market there is a lot of hybrid strain with a lot of crosses , and here is my question :

could we expect an hybrid vigor from all those plants with so many crosses in their genetics ?



feel free to laugh with my english speaking

Cannabis Connoisseur

Regardless of your English( which is fine ), you've done your reading. And now are asking intelligent, informed questions. I like you already

As for your question, I'm not really sure Let's give 0zGrowa (Our local expert on pretty much anything Cannabis related) a chance to weigh in on this. He should be able to help...

C.C.

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The reason "home-grown" is no longer synonymous with "schwag" is because of the control indoor growers have over the plant environment. Over the last few decades, we have learned what the near-ideal environment is for MJ cultivation. To paraphrase a genious, "We stand on the shoulders of giants".

OzGrowa

Avoiding Nirvana seedlines (in the case of crosses) due to lack of Hybrid Vigor would play little part in my decision not to buy the product, gross variance within selected populations and other ethical issues would be the motivating factor for me, I should make that clear from the outset.

Hybrid Vigor is indeed the result of IBL lines being crossed or dissimilar landraces being crossed, producing a Filial or f1 generation. That being said a phenotype can have vigor above and beyond other phenotypes within say a lot of 10 germinated, even if it or they are not f1 hybrids...a good breeder could notice this tendncy for vigor above and beyond others within a population and use this as the basis for a breeeding pair, obviously the plant would need other desireable criteria for it to be consdered, it would be rar to select primarilly on the basis of vigor if other attributes were average or poor. Vigor is genetic combination with an outcome that is highly favourable, it is often coupled with good conditions in the environment, some plants are just explosive.

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viny

thanks for your time


so many prices differences, so many "species" or "variances" (I don't know how to call them), F2 breeders wich seems to sell the seeds with the same label as a F1...

If you got a way to navigate on this "seeds hypermarket" in a ethical issue , I would love to follow it !



PS : thanks to C.C. for the submission of my threat to OzGrowa

Chaman

Starting gene pool is much more important in my opinion than which generation of plants you're growing. It's fairly easy to get crappy F1s, for instance. I confirm F2s and F3s can keep that "hybrid vigour", although inbreeding depression will catch you sooner or later.

What I mean is breeders usually don't mention the number of plants they have used to create a cross. The reason is, apart from old stabilized strains such as Skunk#1, you usually buy seeds produced by clones of one or two plants. With such a limited gene pool, inbreeding depression will prevent you from growing too many generations of plants you'll pollinate (inbreed further) yourself...

Moreover, except maybe for Sensi Seeds and some living legends like DJ Short or Soma, nobody goes through the trouble of getting original landraces anymore...
Why do you think many commercial strains just look the same, or have a lot in common ? Answer: the genetic make up is similar. Everybody use the same clones (ever heard talking about Afghani Garlic Bud ?...), cross them once or twice, then pretend they've created a brand new strain. Of course, when you try to make crosses of your own, you suddenly realize you're just backcrossing something... But hey, that's no great surprise. Don't believe too much in the "breeding efforts" of some seed producers. Gee, breeders are gonna hate me for saying so, but I'm afraid it's the truth. Some ppl have really travelled the world and brought back original cultivars then worked with them. These ppl deserve respect (bow ). Others... well, they sell you seeds, and that's all you want, isn't it ?

viny

right understood !

Others... well, they sell you seeds, and that's all you want, isn't it ?

not really, i'd loved to have more plant details from seeds companies (something like GNU for linux community ).

You know, something wich does not give you feelings that you are "end user " and only an "end user.

I suppose that If we got more details about crossing we could have a better approach about our own next generation strains, and what we can expect for, isn't it ?



PS : If you go to the other world one of these days , please give my shamanic respect to Terence Mc Kenna and Don Juan.

Chaman

Err... Yeah. But only breeders need that kind of information, in fact. As a private grower using clones and growing indoors SoG-style, what do you care if your plants can't be grown for generations ?

I have been a bit unfair in my previous post, so I'd like to correct that too. Some breeders/seedbanks are very clear about the fact that some of their hybrids are just a cross between two plants. They sometimes even tell you which ones. Again, since keeping lines going is sooooo difficult when you can't grow plants by the hectacre, your best option (if you're mostly interested in a harvest) is NOT to pollinate plants. Just buy good, fresh seeds each time you wanna try a new strain, select a good Mum, and work with clones onward.

viny

..no comment