How do growers insure potency of future seeds?

AirAmericaIII · 12-02-2002, 12:09 PM

Marijuana is a very easy plant to grow. One can make it as simple as planting seeds outside, or possibly making it more complex with an indoor hydro system, but still it’s fairly easy to understand what needs to be done to insure a good crop. There are books aplenty describing every process in great detail. I’ve read enough about how much light, what can of light, hydroponics or soil, and all of the other details describing every aspect of this plant till I’m blue in the face.

What isn’t easy, to me anyway, is understanding the genetics. There seems to be a multitude of problems that one can get themselves into if one doesn’t understand certain parts of it. I have Clarke’s “Marijuana Botany” and have read internet cites dealing with Mendel’s genetics, but I’m having trouble finding practical answers on what I need to do for future crops. I would like to hear from others on what they do as well.

Let’s take this hypothetical situation. I have purchased 10 seeds from a major seed supplier. It is a pure indica strain that is going to be grown indoors. Most germinate, and I let the males pollinate the females so I can have ample seeds. This first crop shows to have plenty of potency. Do you try your luck that the next generation will be as potent? When does one introduce another indica strain into the mix to try to prevent any decline in potency? All I’m trying to do is have an ample supply of seeds that will be as potent as their parents. I needs some basics. I do not want to waste a lot of time and money on a crop that will not be as potent as its parents. Any advice from the serious growers would be appreciated.

AAIII

*rockclimber* · 12-02-2002, 01:51 PM

First, don't just let your males pollinate your females, you must do selective breeding. In a small scale grow such as the hypothetical one you described, this would not work very well.

Have you read these yet?
Quantitative Genetics Article
RRS Explained

AirAmericaIII · 12-02-2002, 06:22 PM

Hey rockclimber,

I just got through reading a great deal of it for the first time. Have you been able to apply any of this information to a small garden? It's difficult for me to know which male plants to use. Or female plants for that matter. I'll have to spend more time studying it. Some of this research was carried out by measuring the THC so it again limits what the small time grower will be able to do. I admit it is going to take a hell of a lot more study from me for it to soak in, assuming it ever will. If you comprehend just half of this stuff, it's a hell of a lot more than what I understand right now. Having to go through volumes of books and cites to find the answer to the two questions I asked is probably going to cause me to lose interest in it. I wish there was some short cuts. Nevertheless, thanks for your help.

AAIII

Gandolf · 12-02-2002, 08:36 PM

you want to take a fast growing male and cross it with a potent female. Or...to put it simply take the best traits of each and breed. But then the seedlings from that grow will have different attributes. You then have to take the best of that grow and breed. And so on, and so on, and so on....

Just take a potent female and clone. Much easier.

3hounds · 12-03-2002, 02:46 AM

It is next to impossible to run a decent breeding program growing in the USA- we simply cannot keep the numbers of plants required. Most breeders grow out hunderds if not thousands of plants in search of the "one" and most now maintain separate populations as per rockclimbers RRS Explained link.
The best most of us can do is very small scale "seedmaking" as opposed to real breeding. Sure I choose the best among my 10 plants, but that in no way compares to growing out 1000 plants.
Breeding is all about selection- if you do not intentionally breed for a trait, then that trait will eventually be lost. If potency is your only goal, breed the most potent female with the most potent male (yes you smoke 'em to test) and your seeds will make potent plants. Potency will not decline unless you stop selecting for it.

Quote:

Having to go through volumes of books and cites to find the answer to the two questions I asked is probably going to cause me to lose interest in it. I wish there was some short cuts. Nevertheless, thanks for your help.

If maintaining the potency of your first crop is the issue, why not just clone?

AirAmericaIII · 12-03-2002, 12:24 PM

Since the fast growing male isn’t necessarily the most potent, I wouldn‘t select it just because of that. There is no way for a small time grower to even know how potent it is except for what 3hounds suggests by smoking to test. I‘m not that much of a marijuana connoisseur to be able to note the differences of a percentage point or two of THC, and being stoned having to test each sample is going to be a very slow process and a subjective one at that, but at least it tells us something, and seems to be the only option we have. I‘ve looked at chromatographs and the whole process, and it looks extremely complicated, not to mention expensive. I wonder if the Dutch have invested in any labs such as this, or do they too do it the old fashioned way by smoking it? But the cloning aspect that both of you are suggesting is certainly going to be a part of a larger garden I anticipate doing in the future. But I want to also have an ample supply of good seeds too. It just won’t be something I’ll be doing here in the USA.

3Hounds, yes, potency is virtually my only issue. Yield and other traits including how pretty it is doesn’t concern me. I’ve read from various studies that also seems to suggest that the smaller yielding plants tend to be more potent anyhow. You mention if I take the most potent male and female, that its seeds will make potent plants. I know not to use hybrid seeds, but I’m wondering as long as I stick with a pure strain such as indica, will it continue to give me as potent of a smoke as its parents provided I pollinate the female with one male plant? At some point would I have to add another pure indica strain to keep the gene pool healthy? or can I just keep inbreeding it forever? I definitely will be isolating each male and female plant to insure no other contamination from other plants interfering.

AAIII

3hounds · 12-03-2002, 12:33 PM

Theoretically you can keep inbreeding forever. Assuming you are starting with an IBL the successive generations will be extremely uniform, as the IBL's are homozygous to begin with.
I wouldn't throw new genetics into this mix unless I started experiencing a decline in potency, which I doubt would happen unless you abuse your breeding stock badly.
And even if I did decide to add new genetics I would be careful and keep several of the pure lines to return to... just in case.

3hounds · 12-03-2002, 12:38 PM

Quote:

I wonder if the Dutch have invested in any labs such as this, or do they too do it the old fashioned way by smoking it?

I know that Shantibaba at Mr. Nice submits his product to an independent lab for analysis and is spearheading an effort to encourage other breeders to do so as well.
I don't think he is getting a lot of cooperation, though.

AirAmericaIII · 12-03-2002, 03:04 PM

3hounds, you've been a big help. This is the shortcut and answers I was looking for and it simplifies what I need to do for now. One last question, and I'll leave you alone. I should probably already know this, but if I’ve read about it, I’ve forgotten it, but what actually are you referring to with “ IBL”?

I appreciate your help, and for everyone that gave me feedback on this.

AAIII

gneugen · 12-03-2002, 05:52 PM

This post is to ask redirection as much as it is to give direction as I'm not entirely sure about my reasoning. Here goes:

When you select a trait it's similar as real life traits are. If you have two people, male and female, who are each blue eyed, it is not possible for their children to not have blue eyes due to the recessive nature of the trait. Therefore these two will always have blue eyed children. If one of the children (then blue eyed) were to go on with a dark brown eyed husband/wife and have children, the blue eyed trait would most likely be lost but still lighten the color of their children.

This relates to the 'children' of your cannabis breeding in that mixing two plants with mold resistance will most likely create a seed with propensity to repel mold (likely that it is stronger than the parents). So if you continually grow a few strains, one with mold resistance, one with a good calyx/leaf ratio, and one with sticky leaves, until each is extremely strong in 'its' trait, the plants could be cross-bred to slightly dilute each of its traits but retain the majority of the qualities. Assumptions about costing lots of money is right.. I suspect it takes time as well to create a nice strain of cannabis =-o.

Hope this helps you; if you're just looking to get some good potency, it shouldn't be hard to maintain the trait in your plants with some careful tokin' ;p. Good luck m8.

--gneugen--

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