About Chillers?

**Pesci** · 03-13-2009, 10:00 AM

So we have this new product. Relatively new anyways: Chillers.

They were not around at many hydro stores several years ago but seem to be everywhere now.
They are expensive to say the least.

It is said these guys will prevent bad growth in the hydro reservoir and will keep the solution at the optimal temperature thereby uping the tds of oxygen which in turn also helps nutes absorb and prevent bacterial growth.

Why can I not just add an airstone to accomplish the same result?

Does this mean If I have one of these I would no longer need to use things like hydrogzyme?

And why are we all just now getting this information? Where were these things several years ago?
In other words, though hydroponics as a public hobby is relatively new, why are we just now figuring this out?

I am asking because I already wanna purchase a digital ppm meter.

I dont wanna dump say, $500 or more dollars down on a chiller if their lifespan isnt that long or if I am still gonna have to keep purchasing additives to keep down algae growth etc.

**EMj** · 03-13-2009, 10:17 AM

Hey,
I always found that if my room was right temp and R/H wise the res would stay right. I use hygrozyme religously, it's great for keeping a sane water environment. I would run it with or without the chiller. If you can't get your room to 70 degrees then a chiller might be in order. Now I would take that 500 and get some more fans, ducting, and/or A/c to get the whole room right rather than dump a bundle on a chiller. Just my experience.

GreenDragon2k · 03-13-2009, 10:35 AM

Mmm Chillers, My favorite topic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pesci

It is said these guys will prevent bad growth in the hydro reservoir and will keep the solution at the optimal temperature thereby uping the tds of oxygen which in turn also helps nutes absorb and prevent bacterial growth.

Why can I not just add an airstone to accomplish the same result?

Keeping the water cold raises the dissolved oxygen holding capacity of the water. Warm water doesn't hold much oxygen and favors the growth of nasty stuff. Cold water holds significantly more oxygen and the temperatures themselves inhibit the speed at which bacteria grows. Combining the two means a healthier environment for your roots... However without proper oxygenation such as an air stone or a waterfall then your chiller is pretty much useless. The two must be combined for a synergistic result.

Quote:

Does this mean If I have one of these I would no longer need to use things like hydrogzyme?

In general - Yes. Barring equipment failures, bad water sources, user error, etc. causing a bacterial infection. In which case, you'd want to use something like h2o2 or hygrozyme to combat it... Once they're healthy again you wont need it anymore. Keeping your reservoir water between 62-66F (15.5 - 18.5 c) is by far the best preventative measure for root disease. Most of the time you can cruise with just the chilled water and proper oxygenation methods. But once you have an infection, you usually have to combine attack methods to beat it out.

Quote:

And why are we all just now getting this information? Where were these things several years ago?
In other words, though hydroponics as a public hobby is relatively new, why are we just now figuring this out?

I am asking because I already wanna purchase a digital ppm meter.

I dont wanna dump say, $500 or more dollars down on a chiller if their lifespan isnt that long or if I am still gonna have to keep purchasing additives to keep down algae growth etc.

Good question. I'd never heard of anyone using a chiller 5 years ago when I bought one... I found out about them via the saltwater aquarium dudes. Now they're almost commonplace in the hydro world.

Its a rapidly developing field...I think the primary reason may have been the explosion of methods such as DWC and Aeroponics which demand keeping your water colder than conventional methods due to the roots constantly sitting in the nutrient solution...

The more common/older style Run to waste/drip, passive hydro, & ebb&flow methods are less prone to root disease and usually dont need chilling because the roots get most of their oxygen during the drying cycles, not by keeping the water at maximum oxygen saturation. In fact chilling could even shock the roots if your growroom was warm enough. Large NFT greenhouses have been using chillers for decades. Probably the better manufacturing capabilities have brought them into a more affordable range for the small-time grower. I'm not sure how long aquarium buff's have been chilling their tanks though, surely for quite some time.

Theres plenty of other cheaper methods to go about cooling your reservoir though (check the link @ the bottom of my signature) You don't always need a chiller... Theres lots of ways around it. Then again, I wouldn't even consider growing in hydro without one myself.

Aqua logic seems to be the best brand that I've found. Current-USA is okay but I've got one that needed a new fan after only 1 year of use... Although that only cost 80 bucks and a screwdriver to fix. I'd say stick with aqua-logic. My aqua logic has been cranking away for over 3 years now problem free.

Pump-ins are more efficient than drop ins, but drop-ins are easier to clean. I think the best way to clean a pump in is to soak it in bio-green clean and then pressure wash it out... (have yet to try this) but the drop-ins you can just scrub. Pump in's are preferable because their easy to locate further away from the reservoir. Keep in mind these things crank out a LOT of heat into the atmosphere.

**Pesci** · 03-13-2009, 10:43 AM

Thanks GreenDragon,
I was expecting and hoping you would chime in here.

All that being said, this seems like a good time to put another statement I have read other members here make but have not read anything to back that up:

Mixing nutes up in warm water first then adding them to your reservoir.

If one takes the information you presented below at face value, then we have negated the need to mix up nutes in warm water first before adding them to the reservoir.

I have never done that myself. I mix them up according to the label and add them individually to the reservoir, then stir after they are all in there.

I dont know where that advice started but it would then seem if the water temp is within a certain range, in your case 60-65 , that would have no effect on the plants ability to absorb nutes, but would actually increase the plants ability to do so.

**EMj** · 03-13-2009, 10:50 AM

Sorry guess I misunderstood the question. I thought you were trying to avoid the chiller. By all means, if you have the coin, get a chiller. GD2K said everything else.

*Luke Highwalker* · 03-13-2009, 10:50 AM

i recently went through a lot of 8 current chillers, 2 of them had bad fans. replacements are 50 bucks shipped from marine depot....

after looking at a chiller its clear thatit is nothing more than a window ac unit, with a box built around the evaporator that circulates water, instead of a fan blowing air across it.

id be willing to bet you could build achiller or a probe style chiller even from a pos window a/c unit and a some work

GreenDragon2k · 03-13-2009, 10:51 AM

Hmm, mixing nutrients in warm water isn't something I've heard of before...

I can't see any real advantage to it either unless their dry nutrients in which case that would make them more soluble...

The only thing I can think of is for soil growers they wouldn't want to shock the rootsystem with freezing cold water... Any quick temperature change of more than 10 degrees will shock them for sure.

Quote:

id be willing to bet you could build achiller or a probe style chiller even from a pos window a/c unit and a some work

There have been plenty of aquarium dudes who have done this (search google) and their general conclusion is its worth the $ to buy a prefab unit.

**Pesci** · 03-13-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EMj

Sorry guess I misunderstood the question. I thought you were trying to avoid the chiller. By all means, if you have the coin, get a chiller. GD2K said everything else.

really it was kind of an open question. I just want to play devil's advocate on both sides of the coin to flush out some new directions for discussion

*Luke Highwalker* · 03-13-2009, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenDragon2k

There have been plenty of aquarium dudes who have done this (search google) and their general conclusion is its worth the $ to buy a prefab unit.

That all depends on your level of fab skill

i suppose. time is free for me... and i like to tinker. i think its possible though more than likely not worth the hassle if your time is of any value at all

im just amazed at the price of the chillers... they really are nothing special.

but my all means they do serve a purpose.... you should have been keepin an eye on ebay the last few weeks pesci, i heard some guy just sold a bunch of current chillers for real cheap

HSkunk · 03-13-2009, 11:45 AM

I'm in a DWC set-up and my chiller was well worth the cost. Beats the hell out of rotating frozen bottles of water.

JBJ Arctica 1/10 hp keeps my res at a steady 65*F 24/7. Love it!

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