DWC: Recirculating VS Constant Recirculating - Page 3

hydrolized · 08-30-2009, 05:04 PM

MPT is Male Pipe Thread. It's actually MNPT for Male National Pipe Thread but the main thing to look for is the M or F, which is male or female, and PT for pipe thread, which are different (tapered) than regular threads you would find on metal bolts etc.

I understand what you are getting at with the pump situation. First of all, the float valve is probably made to attach to 1/2" tubing, so the actual orifice (hole through the plastic valve part) isn't going to be any bigger than 1/4" in diameter. What I'm getting at is the flow through a 1/4" hole using only gravity is def. not going to outflow your pump. You are saying your afraid of the float valve flooding the control bucket because the pump won't be able to pump enough water back into the holding tank...this would never happen using a little 1/2" float valve body wit gravity feed. I can't say how much it would flow but you would need a really small pump with a very low head rating to be outflowed by that valve.

In your case I believe the opposite will happen, the pump will pump to much water into the holding tank, and overflow it because it can't drain back into the control bucket through the float valve fast enough. You would need to get a pretty big float valve to make it drain fast enough, probably 3/4" or maybe 1".

I'm still confused on the point of this design you want to use, since you will be circulating the solution through all three buckets, the holding tank will just act like an additional control bucket. Since the float valve will be open constantly letting solution back into the control bucket it will be like having a bigger main control bucket, just on top of each other rather than one huge one on the floor. Sorry I can't explain it any better.

I would still suggest you just circulate the solution between the control bucket and the plant buckets, and leave the holding tank separate with its own air stone, controlled by the float valve. This is how the waterfarm 8 pack is supposed to work, it's just in the kit there is not a pump and the system relies on the water flowing through the little 1/2" lines going to each bucket to balance the level in each one, making it a connected, but not recirculating system.

Dr. Funkenstein · 08-30-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrolized

I understand what you are getting at with the pump situation. First of all, the float valve is probably made to attach to 1/2" tubing, so the actual orifice (hole through the plastic valve part) isn't going to be any bigger than 1/4" in diameter. What I'm getting at is the flow through a 1/4" hole using only gravity is def. not going to outflow your pump.
Yes, this is what I was assuming.

You are saying your afraid of the float valve flooding the control bucket because the pump won't be able to pump enough water back into the holding tank...this would never happen using a little 1/2" float valve body wit gravity feed.
Yes, this is also what I was assuming.

In your case I believe the opposite will happen, the pump will pump to much water into the holding tank, and overflow it because it can't drain back into the control bucket through the float valve fast enough. You would need to get a pretty big float valve to make it drain fast enough, probably 3/4" or maybe 1".

Yes, ok, which may be an option down the line incase the air-stone in the holding tank doesn't level things out.

I'm still confused on the point of this design you want to use, since you will be circulating the solution through all 4 buckets, the holding tank will just act like an additional control bucket. Since the float valve will be open constantly letting solution back into the control bucket it will be like having a bigger main control bucket, just on top of each other rather than one huge one on the floor. Sorry I can't explain it any better.

Yes explained it good. This would be best, but they don't make any reservoirs this large, with this small of a footprint. So I was opting to go with the Waterfarm.

I would still suggest you just circulate the solution between the control bucket and the plant buckets, and leave the holding tank separate with its own air stone, controlled by the float valve. This is how the waterfarm 8 pack is supposed to work, it's just in the kit there is not a pump and the system relies on the water flowing through the little 1/2" lines going to each bucket to balance the level in each one, making it a connected, but not recirculating system.
This is what I will most likely end up doing. But I will need to modify the tank slightly. I need to drill out the feed line on the bottom of the control unit to fit a 2" PVC pipe, and install a return fill line near the float valve or top of the control tank, beneath the holding tank. I just want to be sure that all buckets, the control tank and holding tank all have the same pH and EC levels.

This was the importance of having all containers recirculating. I want to simply monitor my pH levels from this holding tank, and trust in knowing that the rest of the system is uniform. With this holding tank up above, I do not understand how I would be monitoring or even filling the control tank it sat upon. I assumed you fill it all from the holding tank. That's my goal.

Dr. Funkenstein · 09-02-2009, 05:52 PM

Do they make bulkhead fittings under any other name? I went to the hardware shop today and browsed the plumbing isle, but did not see anything resembling bulkhead fittings. Just ballvalves and the usual.

I'm also currently trying to put together a small E&F system for my veg room useing a rubbermaid tote with lid and tray. I'm just unsure of the exact peices I would need to throw this together easily. Probably going to just use hoses, as opposed to running a pvc drain and fill line into the flood table. I figured I need something to seal the hoses to the tray, and basically just run the hoses through a couple of holes in the lid of the tote.

I know most of this stuff can be found at my growshop but I didnt want to have to make a drive for something I could find around the corner. Plus I may find things cheaper at the local hardware shop.

hydrolized · 09-02-2009, 06:07 PM

Sometimes they are called Thru-hulls, but those are more for marine stuff and are smaller with barb connections.

I too searched everywhere including all the big chains like lowes and HD, and all the smaller places like ACE hardware etc....seems bulkheads are a specialty item. You can find them at most plumbing supply stores, but you will pay out of your a$$ for them. There is a post in this forum about E+F fittings by Pesci which I and GD2K replied with great cheap sources of bulkhead fittings.

If you want to make your own you could go to HD and pick up some PVC male and female adapters and make your own gasket with the gasket maker rubber material all in the plumbing section and end up with a bulkhead-like fitting for about 1/4 the price, but they are very tempermental as the sealing surface is much less than a "real" bulkhead fitting.

Rumpleforeskin · 09-03-2009, 05:41 PM

I run a reservoir with my buckets. I just make an extra bucket and hook it in series (at the drain) with the other buckets. You will only need one sight indicator in the series (less holes to drill). Also put an extra drain on the reservoir bucket.

I make my own bulkhead fitting from O-rings and threaded male adapters:

Place O-rings on all both 1/2" PVC Male Adaptors

Insert the male adaptors through the drain and fill holes from the inside of the bucket. It will be a tight fit.

Add O-rings to the threads that stick out of the bucket. Then screw on your vlave to the drain and 1/2" threaded coupling + plug to your fill.

Dr. Funkenstein · 09-03-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrolized

Sometimes they are called Thru-hulls, but those are more for marine stuff and are smaller with barb connections.

I too searched everywhere including all the big chains like lowes and HD, and all the smaller places like ACE hardware etc....seems bulkheads are a specialty item. You can find them at most plumbing supply stores, but you will pay out of your a$$ for them. There is a post in this forum about E+F fittings by Pesci which I and GD2K replied with great cheap sources of bulkhead fittings.

If you want to make your own you could go to HD and pick up some PVC male and female adapters and make your own gasket with the gasket maker rubber material all in the plumbing section and end up with a bulkhead-like fitting for about 1/4 the price, but they are very tempermental as the sealing surface is much less than a "real" bulkhead fitting.

Yeah, I don't think I will be going that route.... too much work, too much stress, too great a chance of failure. I checked out that site in Pesci's link, but I'm still unsure of the exact sizes and what particular peices I would need. I was checking out plumbing and could not fit a 1/2" nozel in a 1/2"x5/8" vinyl hose.

Right now I'm putting together a E&F flood system, I have a 18gallon roughneck tote with lid, and a 27 liter clear tray that fits snug ontop of the tote lid. I want to run my flood and drain lines in the center of this tray, through 2 holes cut through the tray and res lid. I will run the drain hose through the holes, down to the bottom of the res to reduce splashes/noise. Would there be a problem in doing this?

I'm estimating that the holes will be just large enough for the nozels on the bottom of the tray to fit in to block light from getting in the res.

Thanks for your help, man.

Dr. Funkenstein · 09-03-2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumpleforeskin

I run a reservoir with my buckets. I just make an extra bucket and hook it in series (at the drain) with the other buckets. You will only need one sight indicator in the series (less holes to drill). Also put an extra drain on the reservoir bucket.

I make my own bulkhead fitting from O-rings and threaded male adapters:

Place O-rings on all both 1/2" PVC Male Adaptors

Insert the male adaptors through the drain and fill holes from the inside of the bucket. It will be a tight fit.

Add O-rings to the threads that stick out of the bucket. Then screw on your vlave to the drain and 1/2" threaded coupling + plug to your fill.

Thanks for the killer demonstration, Rumpleforeskin

Can I do the same thing for 2" PVC piping? I'm planning to run 4 buckets in a square circulating system, similar to the Under Current by Current Culture H2O and use a 5th bucket for the res. Or would it be best to go the store bought bulkhead fitting route?

Dr. Funkenstein · 09-16-2009, 06:52 PM

Ok, I think since I'm running out of time, and have maybe one plant that is evenly remotely close to going to flower, I am going to build a Bubble Bucket, as demonstrated here by Rumpleforeskin. It being my first grow, I figured it wouldn't hurt to try my luck on a single plant, initially.

I will start by building a single bucket with a reservoir, to keep from having to remove the lid from the bucket beneath the screen. So two buckets total.

I'm just confused as to whether or not this is recirculating or not. I see the drain lines on the bucket, but no fill lines. Unless the drain acts as a fill line as well? I'm trying to get as close to the original system I had in mind, as far as ease of use goes, as possible.

EDIT: I see there is a fill line installed in Rumpleforeskin's Bubble Bucket tutorial pics. I was wondering if it would be ok to eliminate the need for this fill line all together, if I were to install a second drain from the opposite side of the original drain on the bucket, to create a circulating effect back to the reservoir? Maybe install 3-4 ball valve drains on the main reservoir, 2 for the flow of the solution, and 2 for drainage?

Although I'm not sure the extra drains are necessary, since I'm planning on getting some type of pump system to drain my reservoirs for both my veg room and flower room systems. Still unsure of what exactly to get for this aswell.

Any ideas? Thanks everyone.

scrub · 09-17-2009, 09:38 AM

The fill line is nice, clear, easy to see. Great if you can see the level of multiple pots.

I use a dip stick. Sometimes hard to 'read the water level' on the stick but it generally does the job.

Rumpleforeskin · 09-17-2009, 10:16 AM

I use a small pond pump mounted outside the buckets to assist in draining and stirring/circulating. You dont need constant circulating, just after you adjust PH or want to grab a sample.

You don't need a 2nd bucket at all. It is nice to have but not necessary. I grew in single units for a long time without issue. The 2nd bucket/reservoir just acts as a buffer. Less PH swings and nutrient adjustments.

I put my fill port in the lid and no longer have one on the side of the bucket. You don't need one at all, but if you are using a pump, it's nice to have a place to plug into.

If you hook the buckets up in series, you will need another drain valve some place in the series. Regardless if you have a pump, you will need a place to drain without unhooking your series.

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