BaadPuTthyKat

Great Show Daltron!

Your explanation of your construction is very good, loads of info. You've clearly put in a huge amount of time & work, & I love the system... I like bioponics myself, and am all eyes

The major difference your way has from mine is that you provide a 'home' for the beneficials,( ) whereas I just add them each week, like you would with nutes. ...... I am very keen to see what happens here, and how long it takes to stabilise... Major kudos for laying on the show


3 questions, if that's OK :

How much of a difference do you estimate in results, between 3 gal & 5 gal buckets? [given = space & light]

I thought I would get away without a chiller in my system, but it looks like the tanks need cooling... What chiller rating are U using?

and.... I notice the way you have piped up the buckets, the nute flow will tend to be across the top... If the 'overflow' from one bucket to the next went in the bottom [or vice versa], wouldn't that oxygenate each bucket better?

Anyways, great deal of knowledge imparted here folks, & a thread I definitely rate as 5 star. The button is top right... Good Luck Daltron & I'm keen on any other bioponics links you particularly like. Kat likes fish by the way, but has never kept them, except in the fridge

The greatest guide.........

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daltron

hello all

hey Big Toke 68 thanks for stopping by....your praise means alot to me since you are my teacher

everybody meet Big Toke....Big Toke say hello to everybody......BT spends most of his time on another grow site where his work has brought him great acclaim and everybodies respect.....

everybody remember I am still but the student and BT is my teacher so if you post a question and or comment to me and BT gives you the answer......well then you just got your answer from the mouth of God...so to speak


Hello Kat, thanks for stopping by and the great questions:

#1 - How much of a difference do you estimate in results, between 3 gal & 5 gal buckets? [given = space & light] ......this system produces a major massive root system.....in order to make it work in a 3 g bucket you would need to shoot for much smaller plants.....and you may still have a problem with the roots blocking the return output.........

with a short veg time and keeping a eye on your roots I think you will still produce a great yield, just remember smaller plants = a smaller yield {usally}

#2 - I thought I would get away without a chiller in my system, but it looks like the tanks need cooling... What chiller rating are U using? I'm using a 50w, 15 gallon coil chiller and controller........with a 20 gal res......my res is extemely well insulated and should work fine..but I don't know this for sure because this will be my first time with a chiller

#3 - I notice the way you have piped up the buckets, the nute flow will tend to be across the top... If the 'overflow' from one bucket to the next went in the bottom [or vice versa], wouldn't that oxygenate each bucket better? Not so i am using a 90 degree elbow fitting


inserted pointing down into the bucket with it's output just above the nute solution


the input to the bucket is coming from a 2400gph pump when it enters the bucket...... it does so with enough force to completly mix with the current bucket solution......but not so much force as to do harm to the root system.....the fast moving current within the bucket will change out the bucket completely every 3 to 5 minuets......nerver allowing any bad bacteria to gain a foothold since it prefers stagnent or slow moving water........remember as a boy scout or girl scout you were told to always drink from the fast moving part of the stream?......same thing here....this system is one fast moving stream.....I love this concept and it is a very important part of the overall successfull operation of the system......remember I am not going from bucket to bucket but rather from the res to the supply line to one bucket then returned back to the res......it is like having 14 seprate systems all tied together in one......each bucket has a control valve that controls the input to that bucket....... here you can see one of the supply lines that feeds 7 buckets.....each red handle is the control handle for a 3/4" valve which will feed a bucket...

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Carry on my wayward son,
in my fathers memory, Daltron Jr.


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jamesgang

... I wish i could offer you some imput on the bio thing, but I cant... All I can say is good luck and keep the lumens up high and the temps at an acceptable level. That will be the key to your grow... again, good luck, I will be lurking here for a long time...

JG

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The JamesGang

BigToke68

Well it’s early Monday morning daltron and I’ve been doing some moor reading and going over your system or should I say my system damn thing looks just like mine and may I say what a fine job you’ve done, so far this system looks killer and should perform beyond your wildest expectations ~ so just like I’ve always said: that the hardest part of hydroponics is the building of the system it’s self and now that you have that out of the way lets move on and look at some of the other goals that you have in mind………



as I have said, I have never tried growing 100% organically but I do believe that if there was ever a hydro system that could make it possible it would be the Bio-Buckets ~ I am hear to support you my friend and will after as much of an assistants as possible about what I know to be true in the bio-system but you will have to be the one to take it to the next leave with this organically nutrient stuff………..so hears to ya bro!!!

Quote:

Grow enough so I don’t have to grow again for at least 6 to 12 months…..hopefully 3 pounds from 2800 watts….14 5gal bio-buckets

now were talking about something that I for sure know about and that’s the yield of the Bio-Buckets ~ as I think it would be farley clear that every one knows that I grow for yield so I’m go to offer up some advice here on this one bro……………..if you go with a farley descant stain and let it Veg for about two to three week or about 15” inch’s and then swatch to Flowering you should get right around 3.oz per plaint just depends upon how high of a grad of strain that you have ~ my average is about 3.oz to 5.oz per plaint ~ use something like AK-47 or H.D.F something that is well know to have a good yield and you will be just fine

Quote:

Perform NO res change outs

I do have a question for ya here, are you going go flush after Veg is over and your ready to go into Flowering or not? Well if you truly are going to do no res change-outs, when the time is right I have a few tricks that I’ll share with yea when the time is right.

daltron

Ready to go right??




Buckets are wraped in R-9 plumbers insulation....but I don't think that will be enough with a couple of mini suns hanging above ......hence build a Ice Box...

First build the sides



Then build a removable top......



now wrap the buckets, stuff the bottom sides and top with R-19 insulation.......hoping to control the nute temp with a 50 watt chiller and my IceBox......think it will work????



well off to do the same to my res....hope it works

__________________
Carry on my wayward son,
in my fathers memory, Daltron Jr.


Current Journal
my first BioPonic grow journal (5 plants yields over 3 lbs)
BioPonic's: The Constrution Thread
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BaadPuTthyKat

Hi Dal...

I'm sure that it will work, it just may take a week or two, until leaves shade things as well. Once the plants are soaking up most of the radiation, your chiller will take plenty off the nute temps. I saw a huge drop in res temps once the canopy formed, but not down to the 65* I'd like...I want a chiller too!

It won't be dramatically fast & responsive, but I would leave the thing on all the time, assuming it has it's own thermostat. You will be able to dial in your preferred temp & get it, I'm sure.

Oh boy, I am very very keen to see what effect this has on rootgrowth firstly, but it will be apparent to all eventually, through having maximum DO. This is the key to oxygen levels, rather than any difference between a waterfall & air-rings. I'll leave the explanation to you Dal, as it's your GJ,

I hope you don't mind me saying, but I still think that having nutes flow in & out of the top will be less effective than a supply/outlet at opposite depths of the bucket, even with an elbow. I have only had 1 plant before in a bucket (5 gal), but the root system filled the entire bucket, as densely as a loofah, if you know what I mean. Nute flow through this is pretty restricted. You could adapt incredibly easily, by just fitting a hose from the elbow, down near the bottom. The nutes would then have no choice but to permeate all the roots....

Anyway, I'm sure you will be pleased to note that I have learned from you & adapted my new system. The linking pipework is now purchased & is 40mm, instead of the 25mm I was going to go with... I see the logic in not trying to save money here, as the flood risk through root blockages pretty much disappears with 1 1/2 inch pipes. It enables me to use my bigger pump as a supply, and the side tap will help aerate my main tank. Mine are to be linked in series, as opposed to the way your buckets being in parallel, so one flow adjusting tap is all that I need, and can double as aeration. All round better design, Thanks!

I assume you have a tray of cuttings on the way somewhere? Can't wait to see these babbas rock & roll. I must say though, I think you are really being hardcore in waiting for local bacteria to colonise it for you, I use a complex blend of 40 fungi & bacteria, which would last you indefinitely....Just recharging after a flush. Anyways, I take off my hat to you. Organics in extremis Daltron rocks!

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Lollie

Wow, sounds like a great system. No res changes? I love it! I'll be watching. Where are the plants???

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Conversions: 70 ppm to 50 ppm = 1 CF = 0.1 EC and 5 ml = 5 cc = 1 teaspoon

daltron

yes with the chiller being small I don't expect fast results.....but I am hoping to within 5 - 8 degrees of 70......once the canopy has grown I expect no problems at all......just doing everything I can think of to help keep it down......


yes this system has produced some of the finest root systems around today......many people think because they have a bubbler in the bucket...that they are getting max oxygen to the roots.......very few people here abouts have enough oxygen in thier buckets......if you think you have enough go take a look at one of JamesGang's grow and see how much O2 he puts in.......one of the few who really understands bubbles and oxygen....

maybe it would be better that way ...I'm not sure......but what I do know is that this way works grrrreat......so for now I will leave it as is......maybe on later grows I will set up with a tube to the bottom and do a compare grow......the fast moving, high imput of nutes should help to keep open pathways within the nutes.....just like the fast moving current of a river has no plants growing in the middle of the fast moving current.....same thing hopefully the fast moving current will work's its way though.....but truth be told this has been the one draw back in past grows.....must keep a eye on root growth...and keep things moving

good move on the larger pipe.....yes a side tap can be set up for a water fall......larger plants will require more O2......with a side tap you have the means to add that boost of O2 if and when needed.......thats one of the reasons for my valve just after the pump.....I did not have a side tap.....but I do now.......



Bog's Baby's waiting in the wings........








we have 15 LifeSaver's.......LifeStar........and Boggelgum all waiting in the wings say'ing hurry up.....hurry up

__________________
Carry on my wayward son,
in my fathers memory, Daltron Jr.


Current Journal
my first BioPonic grow journal (5 plants yields over 3 lbs)
BioPonic's: The Constrution Thread
Clones The easy way
CannaButter How to make it
Problem Solver::learn how to read your MJ leaves
Marijuana.com Strain Guide

BaadPuTthyKat

Hey Dal...

Do you actually measure your DO? I suppose that is a fish keeper's standard piece of equipment....

I copied this from the link in my sig, regards temps & DO, as it is hopefully useful to everyone at this time of yr (Northern Hemisphere anyways )... "As the temperature of your nutrient solution increases, the ability of that solution to `hold' dissolved oxygen decreases. For example, the oxygen content of a fully aerated solution at 10C (50 F) is about 13ppm, but as the solution warms up to 20 C (68 F) the ability of the liquid to `hold' oxygen drops to 9 - 10ppm, by the time the solution has reached 30 C (86 F), then it's only 7ppm.

While this may not seem like a huge drop in the amount of dissolved oxygen, we have to remember that as the temperature of the root system warms, the rate of respiration of the root tissue also increases and more oxygen is required by the plant. For example, the respiration rate of the roots will double for each 10C rise in temperature up to 30C (86 F). So the situation can develop where the solution temperature increases from 20 - 30C (68 - 86 F) during the day, with a mature crop and a large root system, then the requirement for oxygen will double while the oxygen carrying capacity of the solution will drop by over 25%. This means that the dissolved oxygen in solution will be much more rapidly depleted and the plants can suffer from oxygen starvation for a period of time. "

So, while putting 4,500 litres/hr of bubbles under your plants (as I do) will help with oxygen levels, gaining control of Nute temps will allow you to be assured of 10ppm oxygen. I know Jamesgang uses a compressor, but I think your chiller will have a greater effect on DO. After shopping today for a few bits, a chiller has now gone to the top of my wanted list. This site, for me, has been absolutely the best for learning how to optimise things... Thanks for sharing the knowledge Dal ( and Big Toke, and Jamesgang, and everyone else )...

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daltron

Hey Big toke like I said in the begining......I followed your directions.....so thanks it should look just like yours.....and yes the organic nutes I'm using is made to make a direct translation from the grow to bloom nutes with a 2week period of 1:1 ratio grow: bloom and then just bloom nutes...........I know someone somewhere has done this 100% hydro organic thing before.......and G.H. has made a organic solution just for them, us, me, you ohh heck you know what I mean.....

I expect this one change in your system will improve the yield......and I think it is the one change you should make......I never did understand why you were using synthic nutes in a bio-system?.......

anyway yes hope to do this straight though without a res change.......any tips , tricks and ideas welcome.....

__________________
Carry on my wayward son,
in my fathers memory, Daltron Jr.


Current Journal
my first BioPonic grow journal (5 plants yields over 3 lbs)
BioPonic's: The Constrution Thread
Clones The easy way
CannaButter How to make it
Problem Solver::learn how to read your MJ leaves
Marijuana.com Strain Guide