Electrician Needed!! - Page 2

warflyr · 09-23-2002, 07:26 PM

its worth a try to use the stove outlet, if it has a different plugin, it may be 240v, or not, to find out just do what jenkin said and see how many wires is in there, you could tap onto just 120V, or if you have a multitap ballast you could probably wire it to 240v if thats what the circuit is,
ive heard running high voltage is more efficient, which i doubt, but it might be ;0
if your complex just doesnt have enough power, get a smaller light, or maybe try taking power from the guy that lives above? you

JimiC · 09-23-2002, 08:03 PM

Now, i know this is right for DC, i have a feeling that theres some slight change for AC (it was a long time ago they taught me these things) ..

correct me if im wrong here, the difference when dealing with AC is nagging me at the back of my head, but cant remember what it is.

Power (Watts) = Current (Amps) * Voltage (Volts)

=> Current = Power / Voltage
= 400 / 240
= 1.67A

Now ok its going to lose a bit to the transformer, but we are talking about a current in the region of under 2 Amps.

I accept that this has some margin for error, but surely talking about a fuse over 20A is way over the top?

JimiC · 09-23-2002, 08:08 PM

another point for perspective ....

that stove supply has a 30A fuse because as i remember, stoves can use up to 5 KiloWatts ...

were talking about a light bulb, not the space shuttle.

jvthc4me · 09-23-2002, 08:18 PM

GrowFun21:

If you're not completely comfortable with electrical wiring, you'll need to get help, and probably soon.

The fact is, as another post mentioned, this is a 400 watt drain, less than 1/3 of a typical hair dryer. If that's blowing fuses, there's a problem such that if you have to ask, you probably can't deal with it yourself.

You could try plugging the light into another source, if that's even possible (just another plug not on that circuit). If it blows that circuit too, it's probably the ballast.

On the other hand, you could try putting a typical hair dryer on that circuit, and see if it works normally. If it does, and it's 1500 watts, you KNOW it's the ballast and you must get that fixed.

Older wiring clamps can loose torque - meaning loose connections that cause some problems, but that usually means shorts / fires or simply non-working circuits. Blowing a fuse is a sure sign that power is being drained in excess of design.

Don't let that kill you!

Brown Jenkin · 09-23-2002, 10:09 PM

Yes ... power=volts x amps... If you tap into 240V, you will need less current eg- 1.6 A @ 240V and 3.3A @ 120V
More than likely, theres too much line resistance at startup...eliminate extension cords first.
Idealy, high intensity discharge lighting should be on a dedicated circuit, but in the stead of, your range is the best place to tie in; Lots of power to spare. Most of your other circuits will have generous loads including lights, receptacles, and or appliances; you'd be more likely to have overcurrent situations on them.

Twinkalot · 09-23-2002, 10:31 PM

Hey Bro! Listen, before you start splicing wires or anything, make certain that your light bulb is completely screwed in. Mayby it is not quite in, and you have an intermittant connection. I got a 400 hps, and when I first plugged it in, it hummed but didn't light up. I thought I had the bulb in all the way, but the threads were kinda stuff. I grabbed the bulb with a T shirt and torqued it down another half turn and it works fine.
The suggestion about plugging in a 1500 watt hair dryer and seeing if the fuses blow is a good one.
If I understand, your apartment only has 2 fuses for the whole unit - the main and the electric stove. If every appliance and light and refrigerator you have is running off that main circuit, well I wouldn't be surprised if you are just overloading it. The hairdryer test should tell you.
Someone already mentioned how to tap into the 240v stove cirsuit, but here it is again in a little more detail.
What you need: Electrical tape, drill with 1/2" bit,wire cutters, sharp knife,3 strand electrical wire (romex), a 120v outlet, screwdriver, & a plastic box that holds the 120v outlet. You should find the box right near the outlets in the hardware store.

What you do:

1. remove the fuse that services the stove. Try to turn stove on to be sure you got it right. Make sure it wont turn on.

2. move the stove out of the way and unplug it.

3. use your screw driver to take the cover plate off the outlet.

4. use your screw driver to detach the outlet from the plastic box it will be sitting in. with any luck the outlet will have enough slack in the wiring for you to pull it out of the wall about a foot so you can work on it.

5. you should see 4 wires going into the stove outlet. One is a bare wire - that is the ground. one has white insulation on it - that is the neutral. Spent electrons use it to make their way back to the electric company. The other two wires should both be black. They are the 'hot wires'. Each of them carries 120v for a total of 240v.

6. We need to splice into 3 of the wires - one hot wire, the neutral , and the ground. By "splice" I mean we are gonna cut into the insulation of the wires, and wrap our wires for the new circuit around the bare spots we make so they have contact. Then we are gonna tape em up with the electrical tape to reinsulate them. Here's how...

7. First prepare the end of the wire that will be for your light. First carefully cut the outer insulation off about the last 8 inches of romex (your wire). Be careful not to cut into the insulation underneath, that wraps the individual wires. Now that the insulation is off, you can see a bare copper wire, a white insulated one, and a black insulated one. Cut off the last 2 inches of the black insulation. Do the same to the white.

8. Now look at the wire coming out of the wall with the stove plug on the end. We need to make our black wire wrap around a bare spot in one of the black wires going into the stove plug. Most likely you will need to remove about a 1 inch section of insulation from the wire, a few inches behind the stove plug, unless there is already a big exposed bare spot you can get to where the wire attaches to the stove plug. Wrap the bare end of your black wire tightly around the bare spot you made in the stove plug black wire, then tape it up tightly. Totally cover the exposed wire with tape, then tape about 3 inches of the insulated parts together. If someone jerks on the wire we are attaching , we dont want it coming loose and being a hazard.

9. Now repeat this process with the white wire and the bare ground wire. When you cut the insulation off the white wire, try to locate your splice several inches from your first splice, so the bare spots could not possible come in contact with each other. Tape it all up excessively.

10. figure out how you want to route your new wire. If it is going thru the wall, drill what holes you need to, and thread the wire thru to where you want it. If you just want the wire to come out of the wall near the stove plug, drill a hole beside the plug and thread the wire thru. Now replace the stove plug in the wall, and screw it all in the way you found it. Plug the stove back in.

11. Now we have a 3 strand romex wire sticking out of the wall by the stove plug. Run the wire to your grow area as you like, and now we just need to wire the outlet to the end.

12. Push the wire thru one of the many holes in the back of the plastic outlet box (called a breakout box). Now prepare the last 6 inches of the wire , same as you did to the other end. Outer insulation off, and strip the last inch or so of the wire. Look at the outlet, and the screws the wire will wrap around, and you will see how much insulation you need to remove.

13. Look at the outlet. Most likely it has 2 plug sockets. On the sides are 5 screws - a green one , 2 light colored ones, and 2 dark colored ones. The bare copper ground wire goes to the green one. The white wire goes to a light colored screw, and the black wire goes to a dark colored screw. If you look at the outlet, you should see that the dark colored screw is closest to the wider of the two prong holes. Thats where the dark (hot) wire goes.

14. seat your newly wired outlet into the breakout box and screw it down.

15. go down and replace the fuse back in its socket. If it immediately blows, that would be bad.

It shouldn't.

16. go turn the stove on, make sure u have power to it. Go test your new plug, should be good to go.

Good Luck!

GrowFun21 · 09-24-2002, 01:31 PM

Good god, i never expected this type of great reesponse. Once again I am impressed with the operation overgrow community. That said, you cant imagine how sad i am to report that I have to cancel this grow. This is a college owned rental property that has many electrical problems. The wiring is not thick enough to support the fuses in the box now. Everything is 60 years old. Because of all of this, the landlord (The University) has decided to service the house during fall and christmas break. That means there will be about 8 staff memebers running in and out of my house knocking down walls and putting in a new electrical system. Because of this, my house just became a horrible place to conceal a grow. I will have to save my equiptment until later this year or even next August. The risk has gotten to great as it would be easy for someone to discover this while they are destroying the house. Still, I thank all of you for your expert input. If it were not for the servicing of the house I would follow the advice and see what happens. Ill still be around everyday learning more and more and tryin to help out where I can on the boards......So hopefully all of you will still be here later this year when I can finally start this thing............Thanks again

JimiC · 09-24-2002, 04:15 PM

ok so the grow gets cancelled for now, but you still want to check that kit somehow.

i dont know where youd be able to do it, but if i were you id want to see that lamp working properly to know that when the time comes youve got no problems. perhaps take it to the place you bought it moaning that it doesnt work, if they plug it in and it works youll look like a bit of a munky, but youll know where you stand.

GrowFun21 · 09-24-2002, 09:31 PM

Yea im pretty concerned with the light not working too...i think i might take it to a friends house and try it out. I switched over to the HPS ballast and put that bulb in and plugged the light directly in to the wall.......as soon as i hit the power thing the fuse blew again. It is blowing a 20 amp fuse. If i took apart the ballast box would I be able to see anything that could be wrong? I fixed a car setero amp that way once, just by messing around. Would anyone be able to tell a bad system from digital cam pics? Once again I wanted to say thanks to everyone here, this site is probably the most dedicated non profit one I have witnessed

JimiC · 09-25-2002, 10:22 AM

have you checked all the simple things like the wiring leading to the ballast? i know it was mentioned a while ago in the thread, but i didnt see a reply. thats the first thing id try.

if you are going to open the box and poke about inside, firstly, make sure its not plugged into anything (i know this is obvious, but ive found myself starting to open things before realising theyre still plugged in)

if its a short drawing 20 amps there should be some signs of electrical burns - black, smoke-like marks. or perhaps youll find a piece of insulation thats damaged in some way, and some wires touching.

if theres nothing obvious, then theres nothing you can do, and it will need to go to a professional. dont start taking apart sealed units or it might never work.

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