still rollin

i have recently come across 8 1000watt MH.the problem is that they have the input rating at 440volts@2.3amps.now, i do have the option (until 10/31/00)to purchase new replacement ballast kit,multi-tap(new ignitor,ballst and coil) for $130.00usa.but before i do that x 8 i wanna do some research and find out if there is a way to wire this light to be atleast compatible with 220volt input.if any one has any idea what the hell im saying here and have a pheasable plan to get these lights running i would love to hear from you.

keep on rollin.........

still rollin

the 1000watt lights in quiestion here are wired for an input of 440volts @ 2.3 amps. sounds like alot of juice huh?well it is,per volts,but not per amps.the amp rating drops everytime you add a phase of electricity.meaning(usa only)most residential houses are wired single phase, two 110volt inputs and i common ground.at your breaker box these inputs of 110volts are broken down into two sides and from there it breaks down into individual breakers.now these individual breakers are rated at 110volts @ 15amps(or whatever your running).15AMPS!!!!!!!!!now thats juice .the 110volts is practically nothing by itself,you add 15amps capability to it and now you have a dangerous load.you get charged per amperage useage.now those two sides of 110volts can be joined together to create a more cost effective way of using electricity(still talking lights) and that is called a 220volt output.specially designed breakers(or two singlepole breakers w/a pole conjunction clip)are used to bring these two 110volt outputs together.from there your lighting ballast (multi-tap) is designed for inputs of various voltage and amperage(amperage usually fluctuates w/voltage input)my lights, currently in use, are 2 400wt MH & 1 400wt HPS wired at 220volts and from there the transformer(ballast) breaks it down to 2.8amps per lightx3=8.4amp load.alot better than running it 110volts at 4.5amps per lightx3=13.5amp load.now imagine running 1000watt lights at 2.3amps apiecex3=6.9amps.thats better than my current light setup.
hope this helps.............


again,i was just being sarcastic too....

GntlmnLsr

I once took an electrical engenering (why don't we have spell checks on these boards?) class and if i remember right theoreticly it was very easy to build a circuit to convert 110 volt to 440 volt current how easy this would actually be or how safe is another matter completely. You could probably go to radio shack and tell them you have a blender or a over maybe a microwave or something from europe (I think they use the current you are talking about) and ask them if they have any thing that will do the converting. because of the amount of power you will be pulling you are probably going to have to do a little creative applications yourself especially because from what I have read you can only have one 1k lamp per 15 amp fuse whick is pretty standard for most outlets in residential homes. Good luck you probably want to take precautions against heat detection with a set up like that.

Skywalker

Looks like a good place for my 2 cents

The ballast is really a transformer. It changes the input voltage to a voltage more suitable for the lamp. It also must handle all the power that the lamp (bulb) uses. So if your lamp is rated at 1kw then the ballast has to be able to handle that much as well. There are a few other factors like the 15% or so that the ballast uses up through resistance, hysteresis and so on. If you get something from radio shack or anywhere else that is supposed to work with a coffeepot or something small like that, it won't be able to handle the demands of the big lamp.

If I were you I'd buy those ballasts. Your only out is if the ballast you have now has a 220v tap, you did say 220 didn't you? Most voltage in the USA is 240/120 but you do find 220/110 in places. If the tap is for 240 and you have 220 in your area it should still work. The lamp will be underdriven but that's not dangerous and it should still work. Overdriving is likely to cause problems. Like I say, the ballasts might be worth it. 8 1k lights? wow that's some garden!

Skywalker

lensman

lets refresh the 'techical' side of this ..

1. you are billed by kwh - kilowatthours ..
that is you are paying [currency unit] per kilowatt hour not [currency unit] per amp ...


2 that means if you get a tranformer[5% efficiency loss] and hook up the ballsets you will always be paying 5% more than if you had bought proper balsets ... and at 8kWh/per hour .. you shouldn't even be bothering to ask about the costs of the balsets ..... esp considering what you would be pulling down with that setup.

3 that 5% is a general # and depends on the Quiality of the transformer/Ballast .. i've seen spec sheets for ballasts thats are as bad as 15% loss and as good as 5% .. so for a transformer thats a general # [a guess]

4. basicly don't skimp on the gear and save in the long run ..

ButterflyDreams

Still Rollin',

For the technical question look in the yellow pages of the nearest city and fint an electrical supply warehouse/dealer. Tell them you want to hook up one of these in your yard for night games or some BS.

It sounds to me as if you already know the answer. You have a much greater understanding than most of the in's and out's of the electrical side. Personally I just wire the damn things up and pray.

Have you opened it up? Are there more pigtails? Many lights come pre wired for several applications. I have never played with the wires for 1k's but it's a possibility.

Live, Learn, Grow.
BD

still rollin

well i was on the web last night for about 5 or so hours and did come across a possible solution.Its called a rotary phase converter and it coverts single phase electricity(common residential)to three phase power(480volts).

lensman, you are exactly right in what you are saying< but you are only speaking on half of the subject of kilowatt hour.you are wrong about the amperage useage.if you were to shut off ever breaker in your home except for one 15 or 20 amp breaker and ran everything you have on that breaker(tv,vcr,radio)you would still only be drawing 110volts.if you are only using one thing, you are still only drawing 110volts.the thing that changes is the amperage useage.if you were just to use your vcr, by itself, you would be drawing 110volts @ 3.5 amps.your tv,by itsself,110volts @4amps.now those two things together run a 110volt load @ 7.5 amps.the voltage never changes unless you change it by installing a jumper breaker in for 220volt service.A really good example of amperage useage versus voltage useage is this.a stun gun is rated at 50,000 volts,enough to knock you on your ass, but not enough to kill you because the amperage is rated at 1/2 an amp.the lower the amperage load the lower the load.So in essence, you do get charged per amperage useage in conjuction with your voltage useage.the higher the amperage load the more kilowatt hour you get charged for.

no butterflydreams,their are no extre "pig tails".I wish.A multi-tap unit would have been a life saver.

thanks for any and all input on the technical aspect of my quiestion.

keep on rollin.........

Skywalker

I see a number of mistatements here that I will try to correct. I do know what I'm talking about. I don't want to discuss my background for security reasons but I've done work in this area.

First of all you don't want to fool around with 3 phase. There is no need for it and it wouldn't do you any good if you had this converter. The lights you talked about run on single phase not three phase.

What you need is the correct ballast. An alternative would be a step up transformer raising your 110 to 440. 480v will not help you if they are rated at 440. The overload will burn out the ballasts and lamps in short order. The trouble with buying a transformer as someone pointed out is that now you have losses from both the ballast and the transformer combined. If the ballast loses 15% (common figure) and the transformer loses another 15% you have lost 30% of your electrical power. You could get a transformer that only loses 5% at 1kw but it would be a big one. Since you want to run all three lights you would need a transformer that can handle at least 8kw but you would still have the double losses I mentioned. Get the right ballast and you cut your losses to the minimum.

Your statements on house wiring are correct in general but consider this: Volts x Amps = watts so 110v @ 2 amps is the same as 220v @ 1 amp. Either way will cost you the same.

I think you are looking for an easy way out and there just isn't one. I doubt I will convince you but perhaps a grower reading this will learn enough to stay away from unsafe schemes. Electrical wiring is no joke. You can get killed and your house burned down. Anyone else living in the house or apt will pay the price for your mistakes. You are looking to save some money on the ballasts and you can't do it. Anything you come up with is likely to be a device that will not handle the power needed by the lights. Overload something and the next thing you know something blows out. If you are lucky it will be the circuit breakers saving you from the penalty for making a mistake.

I remember I was looking at a grow light when I was in another country. It ran on 50 cycle not the 60 cycle we use here. This guy had the nerve to show me a little adapter about 2"x2"x3" and tell me it would handle the power for the 400w light I was looking at. The ballast for a 400w is about 4"x6"x5" (roughly) and it gets fairly hot. I knew enough about electricity to know he was pulling my leg but a newbie wouldn't know that. All the guy cared about was making the sale. Later when the adapter burned out in a cloud of smoke I would have realised my mistake.

At least you can fix it for only $130 each. If it isn't worth it then maybe you shouldn't use the lights. If you are going to do it, do it right. You will thank yourself later.

Skywalker

Still Rollin wrote:
well i was on the web last night for about 5 or so hours and did come across a possible solution.Its called a rotary phase converter and it coverts single phase electricity(common residential)to three phase power(480volts).

lensman, you are exactly right in what you are saying< but you are only speaking on half of the subject of kilowatt hour.you are wrong about the amperage useage.if you were to shut off ever breaker in your home except for one 15 or 20 amp breaker and ran everything you have on that breaker(tv,vcr,radio)you would still only be drawing 110volts.if you are only using one thing, you are still only drawing 110volts.the thing that changes is the amperage useage.if you were just to use your vcr, by itself, you would be drawing 110volts @ 3.5 amps.your tv,by itsself,110volts @4amps.now those two things together run a 110volt load @ 7.5 amps.the voltage never changes unless you change it by installing a jumper breaker in for 220volt service.A really good example of amperage useage versus voltage useage is this.a stun gun is rated at 50,000 volts,enough to knock you on your ass, but not enough to kill you because the amperage is rated at 1/2 an amp.the lower the amperage load the lower the load.So in essence, you do get charged per amperage useage in conjuction with your voltage useage.the higher the amperage load the more kilowatt hour you get charged for.

still rollin

im always open to learn.....so lets discuss this further.please.

first of all let me state my confusion in what you said.

you said that even if I had the phase converter,it would do me no good because the lights run on single phase not three phase.....HUH??????they would have to be three phase with an input rating of 480volts@2.3ampsAHHHH!!!!!!i have misstated the input rating from my inital post.the actual input rating IS,480volts@2.3,but isnt 440volts@any amperage three phase??that aside,my mistake,sorry for the confusion,but im still confused on a few of your points.if i were to get this phase converter(roughly $500.00)i would be running,would love to say all eight,but possibly only 6 1000watt MH at 220volts@3.6amps.the way im looking at is , i only have to power the phase converter(220volts@3.6amps)that being done, the phase converter powers 6 1000watt MH.now isnt that more cost effective??i would be powering one device that in turn powers 6.
why do you say three phase electricity is anymore dangerous than any other electricity and that it is essentially not cost effective.i could be running the phase converter(which is powered single phase) and running the 6 MH for the same price of powering 4 400watt MH with a 110volt load.maybe my inital misprint of the input rating threw everything outa wack.
So,if you could please clarify on these points of interest i have noted.if you would like to investigate this phase converter and its technical descriptions go to phase-a-matic.com.

thanks for the input.......

keep on rollin.........

still rollin

ok....i do have one more point of confusion.

you stated the following equation..
volts x amps = watts.
the watts being how we are charged???
you are saying that that is how we are charged?correct???
are you also stating by your other equation.... of 110volt loads being charged the same as its 220volt load counter-part(per amperage).
so which is more cost effective?running my current light set-up at 220volts(currently wired) or 110volt. i have described my lights a couple of posts up.

again...thanks for any clarifaction you could throw my way.

keep on rollin..........