Envirolights better then HPS/MH? You decide!, Read this! - Page 10

Agent86 · 08-14-2002, 06:35 PM

Hi JoséHempSeed:

I'm not sure I just asked the guy at the light store if he had a way to measure the light output.

I'll go back tomorrow and check, hell maybe I'll just buy one.

Later
86

mist420 · 08-14-2002, 07:45 PM

E = feet and I = lumens? why not F for feet and L for lumens?? Oh my head hurts from the last bunch of posts.

I dont supposed we can go back to: "my light is beter then your light na na na!!!" ? Hmm? I suppose not....well, I gave it a shot.

Ok, here's my formula: Put light over plants, plants grow good, keep light, plants grow bad, throw light away, get better one.

mist

wantfreshnuggz · 08-14-2002, 11:18 PM

now I really feel like an ass for ever being a prick. I just really thought that was funny.

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E = feet and I = lumens? why not F for feet and L for lumens?? Oh my head hurts from the last bunch of posts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well put my man....although I'm sure there might be some reason or maybe not. What difference would it make?, it'd be a tad easier to understand....while your high anyhoo...LoL

StickyGreen420 · 08-15-2002, 12:06 AM

That light isn't near as good as a hps or mh. I was lookin at that grow journal and some of the bottom leaves are dying already. None of my leaves die with my mh and hps until I start budding. Oz Growa what's your opinion on this light vs mh and hps?

Agent86 · 08-15-2002, 10:42 AM

Hi Sticky:

If your talking about my thread you should read the journal not just look at the pics.
If you had read it then you would know the leaves are turning brown because I seriously over nuted them the 1st week they were in the bubbler.
The lighting had nothing to do with it.

We read & then we learn.

Later 86.

mist420 · 08-15-2002, 10:45 AM

StickyGreen420,

Quote:

None of my leaves die with my mh and hps until I start budding.

But do have your plants in a 1 foot by 1 foot box? I had TWO plants in my 1 ftX1ft box.

Try that with an HPS or MH and ya know what you will get? Nothing 'cept fried seedlings, hehe.

mist

mist420 · 08-15-2002, 10:57 AM

I thought he was talking to me, hehe.

Anyway, yellowing lower leaves can also be nothing more then the plants redirecting a little N to where it is more needed.

mist

regularguy · 08-15-2002, 11:12 AM

My head hurts.

Mist
Your post made me laugh in a good way.
frshnugz
Variables are just letters. Call them what you want.

There are so many different ways to measure light and most seem to suck. I think it is because they use the old english system for lumens and then some people switched it to metric and whatnot. Whenever i was in school, ive taken physics 1 through 4, we NEVER even used a lumen. I mean they arent even in my books. The accurate way to measure photon energy, including visable light, is Joules per second. Rarely do even the light manufacturers use this because most people are to stupid to understand it so myths and gereralizations about lights start spreading.

If the light manufacturers rated lights in J/s they would have to break it down for every wavelength and it would be very helpful. You would be able to look at a graph an say "wow look at all this energy this light puts out at 450nm. That would be perfect for my grow." Most of society doesnt even grasp the fact that lights are just photon emmiters and all the designers are doing is using different phosphors to get the bulb to emmit different wavelengths of photon energy. If we could get this information all the sucky lights would sit on the shelves while our plants grow major buds.

Horticulture is the only profession that cares about these things and we dont buy enough lights. When the average person goes to a store to buy a house light you care about the color temp(what the light emmision looks like) which IMO is useless because it says what the light appears to look like to your eye NOT what the actual emmisions spectra is. LOOK AT THIS TO SEE WHY COLOR TEMPERTURE DOESNT MATTER THAT MUCH COMPARED TO THE SPECTRUM
Look at how many lights your city buys and compare them to indoor planters of all kinds. It is not even close. It seems philips outside of N America is making some good lights as well as other companies like Sylvania Orsam. At least as far as MH/HPS is concerned. So I think we have to wait until NIST makes a standard that everyone in the US follows or just buy the bulbs that were designed for growing that they dont distribute in the US in order to get a good grow light.

regularguy · 08-15-2002, 11:35 AM

Jose

The calculations are a bit hard to figure out but i will demonstrate how you cant get a higher footcandle reading from the meter than what the lumen rating of the bulb is. This is theoretical because reflectors wont bounce all the the lumens into the area you want to cover perfectly.

Here is the equation for illumanince. I=L/A
I=illuminance
L=lumen output of bulb
A=4pid^2=surface area of sphere you are lighting

I=8900/4pi=708 ft candles

Now if you go farther away footcandles get smaller.
I=8900/4pi*4=177 foot candles at 2 feet

And closer
I=8900/4pi*.25=2832 foot candles

And even closer at 1 inch
I=8900/4pi*(.0833^2)=101986 footcandles

And if you built a perfect reflector you would be able to get half of the sphere projected where the other one is in effect doubling the usable footcandles. but that wont happen and you might be able to get 80% in real life. So no the lumens dont double with a reflector but the footcandles would. And so would the usable photon energy. That is a good thing.

And of course, this is the reason plants start to look like **** when grown on flouros. They dont have enough light to penatrate the whole plant and the bottom leaves die. Hence the need for sea of green and whatnot.

regularguy · 08-15-2002, 11:46 AM

Also Iwould like to say that to agent and mist, regardless of if i seem harsh or against flouros in my posts i think it is cool that you guys are growing in whatever way you can. That is the whole point anyway. Grow on and enjoy whatever yields you can get. Cause if yours is done with one light and you get an ounce of dank you still saved some bucks.

Dank seedless commercial = $320 oz
Envirolite = $100
Grow supplies = $40
Money saved = $180
Smokin the bud you grew yourself = Well, thats freakin priceless

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