06-29-2002, 10:54 PM
| #21 | ||
| Gardener  Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: I am in the plant! Cant you see me? Look close at the avatar. ;)
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 | heh, I just noticed a remarkable resemblance between the floro chart and the HPS&MH charts......coincidence?
__________________ Just for the record, I do not have, have not ever had, and dont plan to have, marijauna growing, or used, in or near my home or any other location familier to me that I may or may not have access to. Any postings I make on any forum's like this one are for purely entertainment purposes. Any pictures that I post have been created by artifcial means from images gathered from, but not limited to, the world wide web. Anything other then this paragraph should not be considered truthful or reality based. -mist420 EVL vs HPS/MH My Envirolite Grow EVL Bud Shots Second EVL Grow, SK#1's | ||
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06-29-2002, 10:57 PM
| #22 | ||
| Gardener Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: I am in the plant! Cant you see me? Look close at the avatar. ;)
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| Bluestar, where can I find info on lumens vs color spectrum?  mist420
__________________ Just for the record, I do not have, have not ever had, and dont plan to have, marijauna growing, or used, in or near my home or any other location familier to me that I may or may not have access to. Any postings I make on any forum's like this one are for purely entertainment purposes. Any pictures that I post have been created by artifcial means from images gathered from, but not limited to, the world wide web. Anything other then this paragraph should not be considered truthful or reality based. -mist420 EVL vs HPS/MH My Envirolite Grow EVL Bud Shots Second EVL Grow, SK#1's | ||
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06-29-2002, 11:08 PM
| #23 | |||
| Gardener Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: I am in the plant! Cant you see me? Look close at the avatar. ;)
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| Other thoughts: Quote:
Just points to ponder! mist420
__________________ Just for the record, I do not have, have not ever had, and dont plan to have, marijauna growing, or used, in or near my home or any other location familier to me that I may or may not have access to. Any postings I make on any forum's like this one are for purely entertainment purposes. Any pictures that I post have been created by artifcial means from images gathered from, but not limited to, the world wide web. Anything other then this paragraph should not be considered truthful or reality based. -mist420 EVL vs HPS/MH My Envirolite Grow EVL Bud Shots Second EVL Grow, SK#1's | |||
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06-30-2002, 05:57 AM
| #24 | |||
| Custodian   Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Three steps to the left of the shadow just caught from the corner of your eye.
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This is a very interesting thread. Thank you. Bluestar I have to disagree with you. Quote:
While colour may have nothing to do with lumens output, colour has everything to do with the plants ability to completely utilize its environment. Lumen output is simply the measure of the total light emitted. How can you contend that this would be more important than what spectra the lumens entail? For my own observation of the posts to this point, If you notice the 6500 chart, all but it (including sunlight) are significantly lacking in the UV range (comparitively). Could this be the reason for the observed improvement? I think so. Delta has been doing UV experiments that tie in with some of my own observations.  Think of it this way. I take you as a prisoner of the War on Cannabis. You are incarcerated in a new state of the art re-education camp. While in my camp I'm going to feed you a diet that gives you the basic necessities for the human body to function. Unfortunately my recipe(s) are outdated so you must eat 8 full meals a day to obtain the peak of growth and production. This would be the point as you'd only receive 2-3 meals a day, thus reducing the risk that you are capable of escape and physical harm to myself. Now in our plants case we have set basic guidelines or minimums for lumen/ft² or watt/ft². I believe this is because it takes (insert favourite number here) lumens/ft² to equal the basic needs of the photosynthetic processes within the plant. Now if I can provide the same basic (minimum) requirements for the chlorophylls and chloroblasts to get their groove on with a lower output light, wouldn't the end be the same. If 10k lumens of Flo's produces 'x' amount of synthetic response with the given graph, whouldn't it take considerable less Lumen output of the EnviroLight with the given graph to produce the same 'x' amount of photosynthesis? Again, thank you for opening a great ponder. This is one I'll have to get some measurements on. Smiles, BD
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Quality vs Quantity. |
06-30-2002, 07:10 AM
| #25 | ||
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the question about spectrum vs. total lumens is implicit in this discussion, actually just in general, its an obvious question. But we've seen most grow guides tell people to stay away from the flo tube 'gro lights' even though their visible spectrum vs. what the plant uses is a near perfect match due to the low number of lumens the gro tubes emit. Furthermore, Rosenthal has said (In: "Marijuana Grower's Hanbook, Quick American Archives, 1998) that controlled studies reveal that a plant responds more to total light than spectrum received. Unfortunately, he doesn't delve any further. Misty: As far as the flourex goes, I'm not sure if its cool white, daylight, or whatnot, it doesn't say on the tube I have and I no longer have the packaging (poor attention span). I am interested in the spectrum of the new 'sunlight' flo's that I see at walmart nowadays, but that's just regular flo tubes and not the high output flourex kind. When you analyze the hps spectrum, or sunlight spectrum, its important to note that the sunlight spectrum is rich in apparently useless green, and the hps spectrum has the highest peaks in the red/orange spectrum at nearly the same range as a plant's favorite (most usable) spectrum. (sorry, I don't remember where I saw the graphs comparing usable spectrums to spectrums outputed by the various lights, maybe this website?) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn~! Cancel my subscription to the resurrection....  | ||
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06-30-2002, 07:51 AM
| #26 | ||
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the color spectrum is very critical - there's even a special horticultural measurement unit for it - it's called the photosynthesis action curve. essentially, it shows that plants don't use much light in about the center part of the visible light spectrum - that's also why they appear green in color - that wavelength is reflected. so having a 'balanced spectrum' may not be the best way to grow plants, after all. there's tons of stuff on par on the net, google can help you find it. here's a chart i came up with to compare brightness. hey mist: we were growing under mercury vapor lamps long before fluorscents! good old mercury vapor - now those bring back some happy memories... Last edited by JoseHempSeed : 06-30-2002 at 08:17 AM. | ||
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06-30-2002, 08:55 AM
| #27 | ||
| Ganja Growa Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: margin check
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| The fluorex has a Kelvin rating of 6500, deep blue...no graphs available to show an actual curve but may also go into UV. Mebbe we can get D to buy a Fluorex an measure it with his new toy  zoomz  | ||
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06-30-2002, 12:59 PM
| #28 | |||
| Master Gardener  Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Outside The Wall...
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Hit the nail on the head padmakara, that is exactly what I was trying to say. It doesn't matter if it the perfect spectrum, if it's a weak lumen output, then it isn't gonna do any good. Now if they made a 1000watt full spectrum HID, now that would be good. I think I have seen some MH with like 30% added red spectrum. That is great! Now on the other side of the spectrum (no pun intended), if you have a very high energy light, but in the yellow or green spectrum (which I believe MV are...not sure), it won't do any good as the plant will reflect a majority of the light. Anyway, this has turned into a great thread! Props to mist420 P.S. BD, it's great to see you back on the boards here at HC.com
__________________ Plant Diagram Official Stoner's Cookbook Especially for dm0ca I remember this one time in junior high, my teacher asked me what the difference between ignorance and apathy was, to which I responded "I don't know and I don't care!" | |||
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06-30-2002, 06:23 PM
| #29 | ||
| Gardener Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: I am in the plant! Cant you see me? Look close at the avatar. ;)
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| Thanks all, for the input and the compliments. I am gonna bow out of this thread and let the peeps that know what they are talking about take this one on. I am really just a noob to all this. Check out my thread in the grow forum for info on how this first grow goes with the envirolite. I am just glad I came up with a theory that has sparked some investigation by the wise ones. Hoefully we can all learn from what becomes of this thread. mist420 
__________________ Just for the record, I do not have, have not ever had, and dont plan to have, marijauna growing, or used, in or near my home or any other location familier to me that I may or may not have access to. Any postings I make on any forum's like this one are for purely entertainment purposes. Any pictures that I post have been created by artifcial means from images gathered from, but not limited to, the world wide web. Anything other then this paragraph should not be considered truthful or reality based. -mist420 EVL vs HPS/MH My Envirolite Grow EVL Bud Shots Second EVL Grow, SK#1's | ||
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07-02-2002, 12:13 AM
| #30 | ||
| Gardener Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: I am in the plant! Cant you see me? Look close at the avatar. ;)
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| Question, $500 bucks to spend on this list. I want to compare $500 on an envirolite set up I came up with. I choose switchable b/c i included both blue and red spectrums. Come on MH/HPS folks this is your chance. Spend that $500 smackers on this list, what's the best you can come up with! : Switchable Ballast Systems The Sunlight Supply Sun System VI is a Complete System with a 400w or 1000w ballast that is specifically designed to run either a Sodium bulb or a Metal Halide Bulb. Traditionally, most growers use Metal Halide for vegetative growth and HPS for flowering. To accomplish this you have the option of buying a Metal Halide ballast, Metal Halide bulb and a Sodium Conversion bulb or you could buy an HPS ballast, HPS lamp and a Metal Halide Conversion bulb. The problem with that is the conversion lamps are 2-3 times the cost of the normal Metal Halide and HPS lamps, and they put out 5,000-10,000 less lumens. The switchable ballast allows the grower to use standard Metal Halide and HPS lamps which cost far less and provide greater lumen output. How Does it Work? The Switchable ballast uses a toggle switch to activate and deactivate the ignitor (starter) component of the ballast assembly. When you want to burn a Metal Halide lamp, flip the switch to the Metal Halide setting. This deactivates the ignitor and the Metal Halide lamp will operate normally. To burn an HPS lamp, flip the switch to the HPS setting. This activates the ignitor in order to provide the initial voltage pulse that is needed to start the HPS lamp. It will operator normally. Sun System VI Switchable Ballast Complete Systems Extruded aluminum ballasts provides cool, quiet operation and will never rust. All Sun System I fixtures use multi volt ballasts by Advance or Magnetek. Sun Systems remote ballast fixtures feature a detachable lamp cord set. Sun Systems universal socket assembly is compatible with horizontal and vertical reflectors. It features a 5kv-horizontal socket and wire hanger for vertical mounting. UL, CUL, and CSA listed. All fixtures have been independently evaluated and passed the strict requirements necessary to carry these safety approved labels. Technical guide included with every fixture. Includes Sunlight Supply's toll-free technical assistance phone number. 5 year rebuild or replace warranty (1 year on the bulb). Available with 7 different reflectors. All Switchable Ballast lighting systems come complete with HPS bulb (MH Bulb extra). Glass and Air Cooled Venting available. The Super Sun Reflector contains a revolutionary new metal insert which diffuses and reflects the light better than any other reflector. It features the exclusive "Adjust-a-Socket" which allows you to center any bulb in the reflector. It measures 26"L x 12"W x 7"H and weighs only 7 pounds. Glass and air-cool flanges are available Super Sun Glass` $ 15.00 Add to Cart Super Sun Air Cool Flanges $ 30.00 Add to Cart The SunGro Reflector features the exclusive "Adjust-a-Socket" which allows you to center, raise and lower every length bulb inside the reflector to customize light patterns. The SunGro measures 21"L x 21"W x 9"H and weighs 15 lbs. Glass and air-cool flanges are available. SunGro Glass $ 20.00 Add to Cart SunGro Air Cool Flanges $ 15.00 Add to Cart The Large Super Reflector measures 22"L x 24"W x 8"H. It features an aluminum spectral pebble insert for even light diffusion. It is easily air coolable by adding the optional glass cover and air-cool flanges. Large S. Glass $ 20.00 Add to Cart Large S. Air Cool Flanges $ 15.00 Add to Cart The Vertizontal Reflector will burn any bulb in the horizontal position, but in an eight sided parabolic shaped reflector. This allows wide area coverage from low mounting heights. It features the "Adjust-a-Socket" which will allow you to center, raise and lower the bulb within the reflector. It has a 45" diameter and is 12" tall. The Parabolic reflectors feature a highly reflective inner surface and an "Adjust-a-Socket" which allows you to raise and lower the bulb within the reflector. The parabolics are available in 3' and 4' diameters. Sun System VI 1000w Switchable Ballast System (140,000 Lumens HPS/110,000 Lumens MH) 1000 Watt Switchable Ballast with Super Sun Horizontal Reflector $ 389.95 Add to Cart 1000 Watt Switchable Ballast with SunGro Horizontal Reflector $ 379.95 Add to Cart 1000 Watt Switchable Ballast with Large Super Horizontal Reflector $ 369.95 Add to Cart 1000 Watt Switchable Ballast with Vertizontal Reflector $ 399.95 Add to Cart 1000 Watt Switchable Ballast with 4' Parabolic Vertical Reflector $ 354.95 Add to Cart 1000 Watt Switchable Ballast with 3' Parabolic Vertical Reflector $ 344.95 Add to Cart * Hortilux 1000w HPS Bulb Upgrade - 145,000 Lumens $ 30.00 Add to Cart * Add a 1000w Metal Halide Bulb - 110,000 Lumens $ 69.95 Add to Cart * Add a 1000w Metal Halide Super Bulb - 115,000 Lumens $ 84.95 Add to Cart * Add a 1000w Sunmaster Cool Metal Halide Bulb - 80,000 Lumens (This bulb does not fit in the Super Sun Reflector) $ 104.95 Add to Cart * Add a 1000w Sunmaster Warm Metal Halide Bulb - 117,000 Lumens $ 104.95 Add to Cart * Intermatic Light Timer $ 19.95 Add to Cart ************************************** Well thought out answers only please! *****************************************
__________________ Just for the record, I do not have, have not ever had, and dont plan to have, marijauna growing, or used, in or near my home or any other location familier to me that I may or may not have access to. Any postings I make on any forum's like this one are for purely entertainment purposes. Any pictures that I post have been created by artifcial means from images gathered from, but not limited to, the world wide web. Anything other then this paragraph should not be considered truthful or reality based. -mist420 EVL vs HPS/MH My Envirolite Grow EVL Bud Shots Second EVL Grow, SK#1's | ||
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