JoseHempSeed

those reflectors look real good.

we need someone to try them!!! we need results here, people! who's going to volunteer? c'mon, speak up, there in the back!



hey wantfreshnuggz, any chance you could do a side-by-side test with the two lights you have?

mist420

So I am sitting there with 50 bucks. What to do? Get that 250 watt MPS from Home Depot and convert it to remote bbalast? Cant get the red spectrum right now due to funds.

So after much consideration I came to the following: Cant get the Red EVL dues to funds, 250 watt HPS not feasable, heat alone from the bulb would ensure another fan or 2 (or 3 or 4). So I start thinking and looking over a few things....if the EVL charts are right which I believe they are, then the Full spectrum has enough red light for flowering, more then an HPS.

So guess who is gonna go full gauntlet and flower with a full spectrum EVL?

You want experiments/results ya got em. Check out my grow below for more details.

FYI: My plants are little 5.5 inch tall bushes 24 days old (approx).


mist

__________________
Just for the record, I do not have, have not ever had, and dont plan to have, marijauna growing, or used, in or near my home or any other location familier to me that I may or may not have access to. Any postings I make on any forum's like this one are for purely entertainment purposes. Any pictures that I post have been created by artifcial means from images gathered from, but not limited to, the world wide web. Anything other then this paragraph should not be considered truthful or reality based. -mist420
EVL vs HPS/MH
My Envirolite Grow
EVL Bud Shots
Second EVL Grow, SK#1's

choader

Nice thread mist!! Hats off to you! I'd like to add my .02 here on the lumens vs. spectrum vs. growth.

Seems that part of the disconnect is the link between lumens and growth vs spectrum and growth. We make the assumption that spectrum is most important and lumens is 2nd in importance, but don't really understand the tradeoff between the two. (aside from the blue for veg and red for flower).

We do know that given equal spectrum, that more lumens is better. But that really means the # of lumens AT THE PLANT, not the # of lumens coming out of the light. So, while an HPS has more lumens, it's the number of lumen at the plant leaf that counts. This should be fairly easily measured with a light meter. IF you can get more lumens at the plant because you can put the envirolite closer, then we may have something.

For example, I assume that there is a loss coefficent for light as it travels thru air. It's probably a differential equation because the amount of light loss is likely dependent on the amount of light present (similar to drug absorption rate in the blood stream). So if you lose 2% per inch (don't know if this is real, just an example) but if you can have the envirolite 6" closer, you simply do the math to figure it out.

If an HPS puts out 50,000 lumens and is 10" from the plant, it will lose:

1K the first inch leaving 49K
.98K the next leaving 48.02K

and so on.

Then do the same math for the envirolite and compare. Most lumens at the plant wins (given the same spectrum).

We need some equations. If someone would post any they know, I'd be happy to take a crack at solving them. I don't know the lumen loss factor of air (or whatever it's called).

Guess that was more like $2 than .02. Sorry for the long winded post. This is a great thread! I'm watching with anticipation as I am planning my first major grow inside. I'm contemplating using the 6 light envirolite hood. At a minimum, I can use them for side fill in addition to a HPS.

Thanks.

Choader

JoseHempSeed

hey choader,,,light, like any electromagnetic radiation, (from an isotropic source) decays according to the inverse square law. "the intensity per unit area varies in inverse proportion to the square of the distance", or E=I/d².

so if you double the distance, you reduce the intensity to one-fourth.

now, that doesn't hold entirely true if you have a reflector, especially a good one, behind your lamp, and you're trying to measure (or approximate) the intensity close to it. then the geometry of the reflector becomes very important, and it's easier to just measure the light.

hope that helps?

wantfreshnuggz

sorry I didn't reply right away....no I don't have the opportunity right now to grow them seperately to see the seperate results from each light. I'm using them both to get the most light I can right now.

__________________
Life is short...don't be a ****!!!


Just for the record, I do not have, have not ever had, and dont plan to have, marijauna growing, or used, in or near my home or any other location familier to me that I may or may not have access to. Any postings I make on any forum's like this one are for purely entertainment purposes. Any pictures that I post have been created by artifcial means from images gathered from, but not limited to, the world wide web. Anything other then this paragraph should not be considered truthful or reality based. -wantfreshnuggz

choader

Jose, you sound very technical. Thanks for the equation. Let me see if I got this straight.

A 430W HPS putting out 55,000 lumens, 12" from the plant would provide 382 lumens/in sq. at the plant.

6 8900 lumen envirolites w/hood totalling 53,400 lumens 6" from the plant would provide 1483 lumens /in sq. at the plant.

So, 6 envirolites would provide 3.88 times more lite at the plant. Correct? Assuming the same spectrum, this would be a superior setup.

Now, looking at cost, the 430W Hortilux setup would run around $300 with a vented hood & glass (which might not be required for the envirolites). That's $0.758 per lumen/in sq.

The six bulb envirolite setup would be $600 plus the hood (~$100?) to toal $700. That's $0.472 per lumen/in sq.

IF (a big if) the above is correct, the envirolite would be a cheaper per lumen setup ($/lumen/in sq) by ~47%.

Does this sound correct to everyone? The real question is, how close to the plant can you get a 6 envirolite hood vs. an HPS?

Just wanted to try to further the discussion. Hope this is helpful.

Thanks.

Choader

JoseHempSeed

hey choader,,,yes, you are definitely on the right track there. there is another thing you need to consider: how much of your lamp's light actually reaches your garden. you will be surprised how many of those precious lumens are wasted!

for example, let's assume you have a white-painted reflector - then about half of the lamp's light is reflected, so out of that reflected half you really only get about 60% - the rest is lost in the reflector!

now, to make things even worse, a lot of the lamp's lumens never even get to you plants. they're lost off to the sides, and again, wasted.

i did some tests a while back you might be interested in. There's a chart here .

plus there's another thread you might be interested in where we're discussing a lot of this here .

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Agent86

Hi guys

I have a very small grow cabinet. 29"w x 22"d x 55"h.
I have 2, 95w enviros, 1 blue & 1 red. that are kept 4" from the top of the plants. There are also 2, 26w enviro lights below the plants. I run the same lights during veg & flowering.
For venting I have 2, 4" exhaust fans that pull the air thru a 4" hole in the bottom of the cabinet, then thru 2, 4" holes in the top of the cabinet, then the air is cycled thru an ozone chamber then out a 4" vent pipe thru the ceiling. walla no oders.
I can regulate the temperature by how I run the fans. With both fans off the temp 4" below the lights is 91, with 1 fan on it's 86, & with 2 on it's 80 degrees. I can open another 4" hole in the bottom of the cabinet and lower the temp another 4 degrees across the board..
I use a hydro system with clay pellets. The nutes are sprayed onto the outside of the pellets and then run down the roots & back into the resevoir. The nute solution temp stays at between 71 & 74 degrees. I keep the tds of the solution at 1000 during veg & 1500 during flowering. I change the solution every 3 days.
I used Delta's grow method of training the plants.
(Very impressed)
I just harvested my first grow using the enviro ligths with this system. I grew 1 plant to 33" and got 5.5oz of cured very potent medium tight bud.
The grow before this one I used the same hydro system but grew 2 plants & topped the plants instead of training them.
I also used a different lighting system. I used 1 95w enviro (blue spectrum) to veg & switched to a 400w hps to flower. I had alot of problems with heat & the top of the plants can't get very close to a 400w bulb and in such a limited amount of space this is a big concern.
The harvest I had using the hps to flower yeilded 4.5 oz off of 2 plants.
For a small grow room the enviros have my vote.

Maybe some of the experts out there can let me know if I can use CO-2 in such a small area. I was thinking of using excellofizz tablets & letting 1 fan run so I don't get to much CO-2 if thats even possible.


Just passing it along.

morphious1

Because of the continuous HUM of my 430 HPS, I have went and bought ( today - after reading this thread ) a new lighting system. It is not the Envirolite though. I have spoken to a lighting expert ( not a grow shop ) and they said that the new compacts put out that much, but so much of the light gets trapped inside the three bulb layout.

So I went with a Long (BIAX) High Output Compact Fluorescents ( it is like a long side by side square, with a four prong ballist conection )

The ones I purchased is a quad light for the top, it has 2 - 6500k - 55watt bulbs and 2 - 3000k - 55w bulbs , in a 2' x 17" fixture with 2 - A catagory ( lowest amount of sound ) electronic ballasts, with a mirrored reflector. Each bulb is 3800 Lumen and the CRI is 96!

For the sides / bottoms, I purchased 2 - 6500k bulbs and the same ballest in a compact housing ( like a strip fluoresent light )

That will be a total of 15,200 lumens on top and 7,600 on the sides. for a total of 22,800 lumens of light.

That is about 120 watts less, and about 6 amps less of current.

This will be placed on a 2' x 2' x 6' high grow chamber. I am using an aero - hydro grow system.

I TOTALY agree with the plant serface lumens caculations as posted above, and with this light setup I sould be able to have them within 2-3 inches from the top of the plants! I do not think I will ever need more then that for my own personal use

The lights are from naturallightingdotcom look under contact fluor, at the bottom of the page.

Regards. and thanks for the great thread. Will keep every one updated and have photos when it is all set up.

Regards.

Morphious ??

PS, anybody want to buy a hydrofarm, 430 son agro HPS ( slightly used )

morphious1

OK, I just received my light meter, and had to test this idea about HPS light penetrating farther then Compact Fluos..

Here are the results.

1 - 430 watt Son Agro. with tempered glass sheild, at 15 inches away = 5000 ft candles at 82 degrees at 23 inches ( added in the plant hight ) = 4500 ft candles at 80 degrees.

4 - 55 watt Biax high out put Compact Fluos. 2 - 6500k and 2 3000k with reflector. at 2 inches from light 4750 ft candles at 78 degrees. at 10 inches. 4250 at 70 degrees!

the lights were tested in the same location, above the same plants.

From what I can see there is Such a minimal difference in the two ( except the fluos are brighter, run cooler and have absolutely no ballast hum! ) This is before I have added the two 3000k side lights.

Please let me know what you think or if my analyses seems flawed

Also after having on the fluos for a few days now and have not noticed any slowdown or changes in the growth rate or look of the plants...


Please look up in this thread to see the complete fluos..


Regards

Morphious