SHADRAX

Hey Guys,

I've got my first indoor garden going and I'm useing 20/4 why?
bacause Uncle Ben said so thats why,I've seen pic. of what he's growing and I was amazed.I'd say he knows how to do it..

HAPPY BUDS 2 U

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GROW SOME GOOD N'S

optimus

do you mean 12 to 15% or .12 to .15%. 2 very different things ;p

optimus

Spaceman_Spliff

Actually, now that I think of it, the Grow Guide pamphlet that came with the seeds from Marc Emery DID suggest 20/4 for veg as opposed to 24/0. Anyhoo, if I can remember to tonight, I'll check out the info on Light time vs. Plant sex and post it here.

bgetting

He has it right on. I used to be a firm believer in 18/6, since greenhouse experiments have shown that plants only photorespirate after that. This is just to keep the chlorophyll from over loading. However after thinking about it, us indoor gardeners aren't givingour plants near the light that a greenhouse gets (no matter how much light you think you have), so the extra 2 hours may be utilized. However, I doubt you will see a difference in growth, so it's what you want to spend on electricity.

And someone said above that when they are young they can use all the light, nope. They are the same when they are young as a month later, and need the rest.

Spaceman_Spliff

Yeah, and since cutting down to 20/4 also reduces your electricity bill and slightly increases your chances of growing females (if planting from seed), you've really got no reason not to. Thanks for the good words, y'all.

Cheers -~

born042079

I posted this same question over at "The Edge" ie. http://www.overgrow.com, and here are their thoughts:

Peace,
Born420
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stickydank
New Member
Registered: Mar 2001
Posts: 17

here hows this thinking.........
if your sitting on a good pile of buds and dont need the extra rush 24/7 for fast nuggets then i say 18/7
the stalk and stems are thicker and plant is a lil healther too
24/7 i great i see lil diff between the two other than time ...
i like fast racer nuggets
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Joey Weed
New Member
Registered: Jan 2001
Posts: 13

24/7 is the way to go. Plants do not sleep and will develop more in every way under 24hr.
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tno
Edge Member
Registered: Nov 2000
Posts: 218

24/7= 25% less time than 18/6. IMO, it is the only difference.
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bonger
New Member
Registered: Mar 2001
Posts: 18

does any one of you have any idea why mother nature intended a dark cycle? well, if you know anything about botony you would know why. let me try to simplify it for you: your root to plant ratio is the most determining fator in your yield. yield is more closely related to root-mass than anything else. during the dark cycle there is a shift from leaf production to root production as the leaves transfer extra starch for storage in the room-mass. the roots grow bigger and stronger every dark cycle. labrotory tests have shown that plants grown under 24hr light will look larger during vegetive growth, but will not have as large of a root mass and therefore is not capable of yeilding as much. this does not mean you can't stretch the 18hr day a little. what it means is you can alter your root-plant growth rate at different times throughout the veg. for instance, i start clones under 16hrs and i cut them at 1"-1 1/2" tall. i end up with a 100% success rate and little 1" plants with a BUNCH of roots. i then transfer them into a veg room under 20hrs light for about 2 wks, then the last week of vegging i cut the light to 18hrs. this really simulates nature because at the beginning of the season the days are pretty long, but they get longer, then they progressively get shorter. there are(as i pointed out) very good reasons for this. if you keep listening to that dumb-**** kyle kushman from high times then your eyes will never be opened. i suggest that anyone that is interested in the subject read some good botany books. also another book that is simpler to understand but explains the concept very well is "how to supercharge your garden" by marseen mainly. oh, by the way, i wrote 5 letters to high times chalenging mr. "kyle kushman" (lol) to come up with any kind of evedence, or even just research to support his argument. not one peep to this day!!! i just think he does not want to admit he is wrong! haha....
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bonger
New Member
Registered: Mar 2001
Posts: 18

oh yea, by the way, hid bulbs and ballasts are not supposed to be run 24/7. it says right on the package of the bulbs to turn it off for a MINIMUM of 15min's a week. i say if you want your lights to last you should turn them off more than that, but thats just my opinion.
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Cannabis Canuck
Edge Member
Registered: Sep 1999
Posts: 296

Here Is Another Consideration...
... besides the fact that some of the experts say that the plants can't make use of more than 18 or 20 hours of light is the physical issue of the light; the more an HID lamp is turned off and on the lower its useful life becomes in terms of overall hours of usage.
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bonger
New Member
Registered: Mar 2001
Posts: 18

yea, but your ballasts will last longer and bulbs are really cheap. i replace them every few grows anyway. sometimes i only use a metal halide for 4-6 months before i replace it....
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Bud Farmer
Edge Member
Registered: Jan 2000
Posts: 782

24/0 grows larger plants. I'm looking at World Book Encyclopedia rigt now. It has a picture of 5 petunias, each given a different day length 8, 12, 16, 20, and 24 hours. The more light the plants were given, the bigger they grew (even the flowers were bigger). The pic is from the USDA. That's proof enough for me that plants don't benefit from a dark period, at least not as much as they benefit from extra light. Anyone interested in the article, it's the 1989 edition under Plants on page 546.

endo pendo

OK, guys, I'm still pretty new to this stuff, so take this for what it's worth.

Just like many of you here, I have learned all of what I know from reading.

I have heard NOTHING to support shorter light cycles during veg produce a higher percentage of females. The biggest factor I've read about that will facilitate a higher female ratio, is making sure the radicle (tap root) is not cramped for space. Although it is not 100% proven, experienced growers have noticed a higher female percentage when they plant in deeper containers so the radicle has plenty of room to stretch downwards.

Now, as far as the 18/6 vs. 24/0 debate.....either will keep plants in a vegetive state. Anytime you introduce dark periods, your plants will stretch. Ben has a link in his link-o-rama that shows how dark periods affect internodal spacing. So, plants vegged for the same time under 18/6 will be taller than the same plant at the same age grown under 24/0. Also, plants that are vegged under 24/0 will show sex faster when switched to 12/12, because it's more of a drastic change that 'shocks' the plants more. But you will see slightly more stretch in plants that go from 24/0 to 12/12.

I think in the end, it all probably works out close to the same results. I personally think that there is advantage to 24/0 lighting regimen. Since most of us use smaller lights for veg, it makes sense to keep them as short as possible to keep more of the plant closer to the light, therefore recieving more lumens. This will produce heavier, more developed foliage. More foliage=more food factories. More food factories=bigger buds.

These are just my opinions, but I think that for most personal hobby growers, 24/0 is best. The biggest advantage IMO for the 18/6 is for bigger commercial operations to save on the light bill. For small single light veg rooms you really don't save that much by going to 18/6.

To determine how much your light costs to run, use this equation: WATTAGE/VOLTAGE=AMPERAGE

So, let's say we have a 400 watt balast for example. And let's say we pay .06 per kilowatt/hour for electricity (you can find how much you pay on your bill). Now, a 400 watt balast acutally uses about 460 watts per hour. So, at .06 per kilowatt/hour, you pay $.6624 cents per day, or $19.87 per month at 24 hours a day. If you run it at 18 hours a day you would pay $.4948 a day, or $14.90 a month.

So with a 400 watt light you save less than $5 a month by going from 24/0 to 18/6.

Hope I'm not preaching to the choir here, but I just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth.

Later,
pendo

jcf1

In my experience 18/6 has not saved electricity, the veg period just takes much longer, and probably ends up using more, cant be phucked to do the maths. 24 hrs is my usual method and seems to yield the same as 18/6, but with less time. There is a possibility that 18/6 may get better root structures, and/or thicker stems, blahblah, so maybe, but I have never noticed a difference in yield. I have never tried 20/4 but, I will bow to superior experience and conceed that, if Uncle Ben says so, then it probably is so. Try it out, but if I were you, don't bother with 18/6, it just isn't all that economical in time or electricity.

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Proper job.

skunk0526

For what it's worth, i've got to agree with pendo on this.
My babies are under 24hrs of floro light and the only problem i've had has had to do with H20. And that was just a scare

http://www.hempcultivation.com/420/s...?threadid=7016

all else seems to be full steam ahead for these girls.

8 seeds Planted 3-4-01
8 seeds sprouted 3-10-01
largest plant of 8 as of 3-29-01 = 11"
smallest plant of 8 as of 3-29-01 = 6"
and the ones that are'nt growing up, are growing out. I'm using a vericle light setup. Check it out here

http://skunksgreenroom.iwarp.com/projectskunk1-1a.htm

all are a deep green and they range from thin to almost maple leaf like leaves.

Any guesses?

I have to get camera with good close up capabilities.
L8er

SKUNK0526

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UncleBen

I think we're splitting hairs here fellas, and anything from a 18/6 to a 24/0 will get you there. It has been reported by Mel Frank that a 24/0 does produce faster growth, but he also gives some caveats, all discussed here. I would take most of this with a grain of salt and do what works best for you. MH lamps do need a rest period every 2 weeks for safety reasons. I do 20/4 which is a compromise regarding factors discussed, and my plant are ready to go 12/12 within 3 to 4 weeks, and they finish as big as 63" because I get such fast growth. You need to factor in the other factors.

Endo, just to clear up something regarding etoliation - that link was trying to reflect that long internodes are caused by a lack of light and intensity, not necessarily by the photoperiod.

Another issue, moderate light for longer periods of time is much more productive than high light for shorter periods of time. We're talkin' photosynthetic production of simple and complex sugars here....

Uncle Ben