BaadPuTthyKat

These look pretty interesting cab builder material. Make a great veg unit. Add the side flouro tubes of your choice.

LB don't you now think there are so many interesting flouros, that the expensive & not so long lasting big CFL's are worth thinking about some more?

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lilbud99

Kat, I had a look at that link place earlier, they are great units for cabs, but you seen the prices

I initially wanted to incorporate my 400w hps and some flouro's in the new cab, but wanted short ones like the enviro's, so i can have the HPS in the middle and flouro's on either side of it. it would mean coming up with a different design, i had a bloody good one tooooooooo.
LB

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lilbud99

I've been searchin and searchin for the best price's on Envirolite bulbs in the UK, The asking price of £50 per bulb being the norm, but i've even been quoted as much as £70 per bulb, however on ringing THESE guys, i found them for £35 each, plus a twin reflector is only £60, normally £80 so far thats a saving of £50 on the normal prices for the combo.

Worth checking them out as they deal direct with Envirolite themselves apparently.

LB.

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BaadPuTthyKat

They have these which I've never seen before! Very high Fraction of Absorbed Photosynthetically Active Radiation. Everything's going purple?

"nurturelite PURples emit 100% Photosynthetically Active Radiation (PAR), with unique spectral outputs for maximum Photosynthetically Useful Radiation (PUR). " Now we're talking!

Here is the spectragraph They are they same design as envirolite, but at radically different Nm. Now these would be interesting to compare against those previous grows under envirolite. Ah! I just found this page, with a range of three for different growth stages. Why don't they do this properly with HPS & MH?

I just found that out too. Has anyone seen or heard of these? Same website as above......... Kat

"BIG PURple, in fact big at every wavelength, the "One Lamp", Sulphur Plasma Light or Sulphur Microwave Lamps are now available from Island Systems. More green light, more blue light and more red light than ever ! 1000w Sulphur Microwave Lighting systems are usually only supplied to Research centres for sustainable plant and crop growth without sunlight, and of course NASA, but giving a near sunlight power and truly Full Spectrum, massive PUR, their incredible efficiency means that 1000w SP = 2500w HPS in terms of photoponic output. Secondly, by adapting your plants to the 20 hour day, so 10 hours light and 10 hours dark, with 1000wSP you can use this short day technique to reduce total flowering period by 20%, but because of its awesome photoponic power the yield will be the same or more, in 20% less time and half the electricity!

"When the nurturelite SP is on, the light is so white & bright, you think a Godlike entity has just arrived & you know HPS, it's days are numbered." Professional & Commercial use of nurturelites to complement the nurturelite "One Lamp" Sulphur Plasma in 3D lighting systems is a favourite for now and the future.

If you want more information on the nurturelite Sulphur Plasma Lightning Systems and like the idea of having your own portable "One Lamp" from nurturelite, please email first, we do not disclose information verbally. The system is basically a microwave oven with a genuine ball of lightning on top, you can plug in anywhere you could a microwave oven, that's portable for something that can light up a whole nursery/warehouse on it's own!

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lilbud99

Top marks for that one Kat

A Q tho if i may, Do you actually know anyone at N.A.S.A that could maybe smuggle one out the backdoor like? as far as i read they are'nt commercially available yet, but boy when they come on the market, can you imagine the results you could have.

LB

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Beener

Hey Lilbud

The bulbs are one and the same, as far as the SPD graph go. No doubt, I've seen that graph so many times, I don't need to even match them up.

However, They're available in T12s here. (for those of you that don't know what the "T" ratings are on fluoro bulbs...it's simply the diameter size of the bulb in 8ths of an inch. a T-5 is 5/8s of an inch while a T-12 is 1.5 inches or 12/8s of an inch)

These bulbs are available in standard output and VHO or (very high output) versions. The VHO bulbs need a special VHO fixture. The VHO bulb can put out as much as 75W per 24" tube. While the standard bulb puts out 40W per 48" tube. The VHO fixtures are VERY expensive here.

I'm using the "standard" version, as I'm running these bulbs as supplemental lighting. None the less....it was a costly addition. The total cost for 6 bulbs and fixtures (2ea, 2-bulb fixtures & 2ea, 1-bulb fixtures) was about $150.00.

We'll see how well they perform.

Penguin...You've done a great service to us all by starting this thread.

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Beener

BaadPuTthyKat

Sorry if I seem to have butted in, but it was after pointing LB to this thread, before he went spending moola.. I think you have a longer lasting system, which may turn out to be cheaper in the long run than the CFL's.

LB I chatted with the MD of the firm, & he was cagey about retail price, but it is available. RRP is around £2K In a room though, its low heat & plain flexibility might make it worthwhile. The PURple enviro style light they have looks just the ticket to supp. HPS... [IMHO of course! ]

Penguin, I hope you're not taking my questions too seriously? It would be good to hear your views though. Beener's right, thank you for coming up with the thread. Kat

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lilbud99

Here's the full info on the lights Kat mentioned, The PURPLE Nurturelites.

available HERE for anyone in the UK.


Purple

Green (~550nm) for humans and plants like it blue (~450nm) and red (~660nm), with a bit of yellow to make chlorophyll. Always more than 50% of greenish light is reflected from plants and not useful.

Green Lumens are for humans, PURple is for plants







The Photosynthesis Action Spectrum is commonly accepted to be between 350 to 700 nm, thus most fluorescent lights made for domestic use emit near 100% PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation). Study of Photosynthetically Useful Radiation (PUR) created an evolution in nurturing light technology, applying A-Wave theory and combining unique techniques for preparing phosphors, the PURple nurturelite. PURple is generally accepted by the experienced as “the best" fluorescent plant light. nurturelites emit most of their light in the wavelengths that are more efficient for photosynthesis, namely the red and blue ends of the visible spectrum. As expected, because we all really like green, these light sources can look dim to the human eye and consequently have poor lumen ratings. Also, their colour temperature (K) and CRI ratings have little, if any, meaning [more]. PURple nuturelites were not designed to be "seen" by humans, but to efficiently stimulate plants with Photosynthetically Useful Radiation (PUR).


When you remove the green from the emission the light appears dimmer, but most importantly, the actual amount of Photosynthetically Useful Radiation is actually a lot higher.


Purple light

The only other lights we found designed on these principles are used by NASA and they are very expensive Light Emitting Diodes (LED) systems.

Picture:International Space Station flowers bloom in purple light. "Plants see the world in red and blue," says Bratislav Stankovic, a WCSAR plant scientist. International.Picture: Light Emitting Diode (LED)





systems. 670 nm (red) 470 nm (blue).By combining the absorbencies of both Chlorophyll A and Chlorophyll B and to a lesser extent the Carotenoids, a wave of Absorbency can be identified. This is the theoretical underpinning for designing the target Spectral Distribution of a PURple nurturelite Lamp. Continuous research of 21st century technology and proven practitioner findings are essential for development of products that are truly 'useful', theory alone is not enough, but nonetheless we have plenty of it!

Why is everything going PURple?
Red light is very important to plant reproduction. Photochrome pigments absorb the red and far red portions of the light spectrum and regulate seed germination, root development, tuber and bulb formation, dormancy, flowering and fruit production. Therefore, red light is essential for stimulation of flowering and fruiting.

Blue light stimulates chlorophyll production more than any other colour, encouraging thick leaves, strong stems and compact





vegetative growth. excellent for plants cropped before flowering stage, such as lettuce and cress.Carotenoids, the yellow-orange pigment in plants, absorb blue light and control leaf fall and fruit ripening. The Carotenoids and Chlorophyll A molecules transfer their electronic excitation energy to Chlorophyll B molecules, leading to the production of chemical energy. Riboflavin, containing another pigment, absorbs violet light and influences phototropism, consequently directional growth and movement in the foliage of the plant. The plant canopy will be more capable of efficiently positioning itself for the absorbance of photosynthetically useful radiation (PUR). Another benefit is possible, many believe that Near UV light, at the correct wavelength, is highly beneficial for flowering, it can enhance their appearance and fragrance, also producing higher quality fruit."
PUR ? What a lot of FAPAR ! (Fraction of Absorbed Photosynthetically Active Radiation). Due to the individual pigment composition of different species the usefulness of a given light field for photosynthesis is not a simple function of the total intensity of PAR. It depends also on the spectral distribution of quanta, especially with regard to the absorption spectrum. To account for this Morel (1978) introduced the concept of PUR(Photosynthetically Usable Radiation), which is a modified PAR obtained by weighting it across the spectrum with the specific absorption spectra of plants. Estimating PUR requires knowledge of the spectrum of light and the absorption spectrum of the plant

Contribution to research has come from many studies made on plant & crop identification, often from ariel photography, for production of spectral charts. Mirroring (on x-axis) these charts to identify specific wavelengths not reflected and thus assumed "absorbed", allows us to identify some of the more specific PUR requirements of differing plant types. NrUV causes an increase in the production of protective resins of flowering plants.




These combined with blue and red envirolites look to be a very good option for anyone with restricted space, and are unable to use normal flouro tubes, or simply anyone interested.

Lilbud.

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Beener

Hey Kat and Lil

That's an interesting bulb there. I haven't seen it sold here. I can hook up with places that sell it from where you are. It seems as if some lighting companies are finally going to get some much needed competition. That would be good for all of us.

I just wanted to re-post the SPD chart from that Chromalux bulb I posted earlier. This one is much easier to read the nanometer range.


Because of the blue range coverage I'm getting from the Super Actinic R bulbs (or Marine Actinics as they're called where you are) I'm very interested in these Chromalux bulbs. They're not powerful bulbs, but I'm only looking for supplemental lighting.

Attached Thumbnails

 

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Beener

sientbob

Please remember "spectral power distribution" are relative. I mean they do not give any indication of intensity or total energy/quanta emited. All they show is the way the quanta are distributed or dispersed across the electromagnetic spectrum. And the spd graphs we are looking at bascally only cover the visible portion of the spectrum. They do show some Ultraviolet and near infrared sometimes, but they don't show enough to be the sole criteria for which bulb we want.

So while quality of light is important, or rather very important, quantity or intensity is extremely important. Especially to cannabis, a full sun loving plant. So we should also be considering this when we choose a bulb. This is where the PAR(total radation in the 400-700nm range) rating would be usefull. Unfortunatley this specifcation is rare, especially in bulbs not marketed as horticultural. The next best rating(imho) is Radiant Flux. This is a total measure of all the radiated energy, includeing the uv and infrared.

We need to consder quality(efficency of the light to do what we want it to do) and quantity(efficiency of the bulb at producing quality light) when determinng which bulb to use for what application.

Either radiant flux data coupled with a complete SPD graph, or PAR data coupled with the SPD graphs showing the distrbution across the 400-700nanometer portion of the spectrum should be what we want to see when tryng to choose a bulb. Use this and inform yourself of the effect of certain wavelengths or ratios of certan wavelengths on plant morphology, and make educated decisions.




You can't expect HID bulbs to have the quality of light that fluoros do, and you can't expect fluoros to emit light with the same intenstiy that HID's do. Fluorescent bulbs create light in a completely different way/technology than HIDs.

Fluoros create light by passing an electrical current through mercury vapor, produceing ultraviolet light, this uv light then causes the phosphors(powder)coating on the inside of the tube to "fluoresce" or give off visible light. With different phosphurs giving off different wavelengths of light, the color can be customised to an extent by varyng the combinations of phosphors used. Because the light is emited by the phosphor, that is spread out, coating the entire inside of the bulb tube, the light isn't very intense.

HIDs on the other hand produce light by passing electrical current through different metal vapors that give off light(visible, uv and infared) when electrically excited. Manufactures are limited to certain gases, which are stable/controlable enough in this excited state to be safe and reliable, that the colors or spectrum emited isn't very customizable. However the light is very intense(hence the I in HID).



hopefully that made some sense, and someone can get something useful out of it.

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