pumpkin2006

So what equipment do I specifically need to measure and assess my bulbs?

I'd love to participate because I go through a number of 1000w bulbs and try out different brands. I have an Agromax, EYE Hortilux and a Sunmaster. I also have a philips 600w bulb, 600w Agromax, 400w Agromax and some other random bulbs (I think). I'd love to measure all these, but I don't really know where to start. I'm assuming I need a lux meter or lumen meter or something like that. How do I measure spectrum's?

Quantrill

The only tool you need is this here spread sheet. The Spectral Power Distribution (SPD)graph is supplied by the manufacturer and is measured with a spectroradiometer. Digitize the data in this graph(details on how to do this on page 7) and input it into the spreadsheet, along with the lumenous flux data. Voilla, pertinent info to compare bulbs for horticultural purposes.

Once you get the results from the spreadsheet you can use a luxmeter and math to get a pretty good idea of irradience in photosynthetic term across your canopy surface..

If you read the entire thread, there is good discussion on all this and more. If you have any specific questions please ask. Knna or I (if i can) will help, quaranteed.

OldBasilisk, I will work on those SPD, but it may take me some time. You might as well go ahead and post your results, we can compare when I get them done.


Hope knna is doing well.

__________________
Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't.

~Mark Twain

OldBasilisk

I don't trust my results yet - I started working on the 1kw Hortilux Blue MH, and I know I don't have it right yet - I had 2 extra pixels, and it came out SO MUCH lower in efficiency than the 1kw EYE HPS that I don't want to publish it.

I'll keep working on it, though.

penguin

Post away! I looked at the Hortilux Blue (MH) as well and came up with the following numbers:

1000w: 821 PUR, 1331 PPF
400w BU 328 PUR, 533 PPF
400w HOR 298 PUR, 483 PPF

Much lower efficiency than Hortilux HPS by these criteria; also short (to ridiculously short) rated life + high lamp replacement cost = not very attractive.


penguin

__________________

OldBasilisk

Penguin - For the 1kw Hortilux Blue MH - my results were < 5% off from yours, (on the low side)

I didn't save them in Excel, but I did save my skewed graphic, so I can re-count and post it here when I return home.

With regard to their inefficiency, I'm thinking perhaps that a 1kw MH should be considered like a 400/600w HPS - but with greater penetration power - building the grow strictly from PUR/PPF numbers.
Certainly on the scale of a several kilowatts grow, they are unattractive, but I still find the spectrum appealing for aesthetic reasons.

Using the YOR yield calculator, as well as this tool, MH seem unreasonable at any level; but in my spare space, I'm still considering carrying out a 1kw MH vs. a 600HPS challenge for ~3 months and test the finished product.

-That’s supposing I choose to invest in the 1kw just for experimental purposes when my other option is the tried and true 1kw HPS, and toss in a high-penetration (zoological) UVA/UVB light to complete the spectrum.
...I guess I could go digital / switch able rather than purchase individual fixtures...

Something I've been wondering - is there a saturation point for the chlorophyll? I know Penguin mentioned not seeing the Action Spectrum for Cannabis earlier - Somewhere in the back of my mind, I keep thinking that we are bombarding them with one set of wavelengths - nearly to the complete exclusion of blue-purple (when you consider a basic Phillips/Sylvannia/GE lucalox HPS) and then there is what Knna has been saying about training them to use blue or red light more effectively... a lot of questions are buzzing for me.

knna

Im working on the new spreadsheet models (1,5,10nm wavebands). I believe the new model are more user friendly than the old ones.

But im trying to make a complete new version, including data of prices and some more spectral analysis. But im having problems finding the formula to calculate phytochromes photoequilibria. It was proposed by Sager et al, but i cant find any detailed info about.

So if anybody know something about, please tell me.

Finally ive included three basic results: PPF (photon flux), PYF (photon flux weighted by Cannabis absortion) and PUR (PAR watts weighted by photosynthetic action spectrum). Being the last two included just as orientative data. PAR watts are included too (to compare with manufacturers ratings).

Apart of the detail of phytochrome equilibria, the sheet is near finished. But i want to offer it with some bulbs analyzed, with accurate info about system watts (including ballast) and useful life, defined as time in reaching 80% lm depreciation, so still it will take some time. I would like to include a help page with generic info about bulbs and about spreadsheet's use.

knna

__________________


Bulb Analyzer Tool

choader

bump............... this is buried too deep in searches. Sticky perhaps??? Hmmmmm??? This is great scientific stuff here. Knna has done excellent work.

Ok, I'm done.

Choader

__________________
SS Bubblegum & DP Mazar Small Cab - Complete
Choader's 600W HPS Grow - Complete
Small Cab Grow - Complete

READ ME!! Posting Guidelines
Male and Female Pre-Flowers

knna

Thanks, choader.

We are working updating the library threads.

But anyway, i would like to have an sticky in lighting with the definitive spreadsheet, wich is more user friendly and include more info, with most popular bulbs reviews and ratings.

I finished it and i was introducing raw data with higher accuracy. But i used the photosynthesis action curve using the Inada and Mc Cree ones mixed. Two weeks ago, i found an article of Mc Cree wich explain the metodology used to build his curve, and i realized its refered to quanta (photons) units, while the Inada one is refered to energy units. This explains why the Mc Cree curve have its max at 610nm and the Inada curve at 670nm.

So now i need to redo the spreadsheet and reintro all the data. Although knowing this, ive though of using two complementary methods of calculating PUR: with the Inada curve for energy units, and the Mc Cree curve for quanta units. Two PURs result wich must be close, but wich will give a nice range of accuracy.

knna

__________________


Bulb Analyzer Tool

Random Numbers

Knna and Quantrill you are pioneering extrordinaires, please keep up the great work and know that this thread is probably the best one I have ever read in my 6 years + of thread browsing.

knna

Ive finished the new version. I think its far more user friendly, apart of calculating more useful figures.

I wanted to redigitalize many SPDs before uploading it, but now i feel it would be better uploading it in order to get feedback and improve the new version the max before introducing all the lamps we know (my idea is digitalize all the SPDs in the SPD thread, and add new ones).

Once finished, we will be able to do a database with prices and bulb's duration, so people only will need to click in the right link to get all the data about any given bulb.

The new version is colored this way:

-White cells: those used by the sheet to calculate. Dont touch them

-Green cells: headers. Dont touch.

-Yellow cells: those you need to fill

-Blue cells: results.

Ive used two complmentary ways of calculating PUR. First one uses directly the Inada curve, from the enrgy data (watts), while the second calculates it from the uE data, using the absorbance of cannabis and the quantum efficacy curve from McCree. Probably its more accurate, but having both gives more info and some indication of the error margin.

The first way is given as "PUR" and related to PAR W, and the second, as PYF (photosynthetic Yield Flux), related to PPF.

The new sheet gives results in 2 main areas:

1)At the up right corner, the spectral analysis. Those figures wich only are refered to the spectrum:

-LER (Luminous Efficacy of Radiation): lm/optic watt. How many lm one emited watt of that spectrum produces.

-PPF, PYF and PUF per Klm. Very useful to know the correspondent figures from lux (lm/m2) readings.

-PUR/PAR W. Correspond exactly to Inada's coefficients (photosynthetic efficacy of a given spectrum).

-R/B and R/Fr ratios (R=red(600-700nm); B=blue (400-500nm); Fr=far red (700-780nm)), either in optical watts or uE. For R/Fr, i used the tight ratio (660 +-10nm and 725+-10nm, 730+-10nm for the 10nm sheet), wich works pretty similar to the full range ratio for broadband light sources.

-φ Pfr/Ptot: phytochromes photoequilibria for the given SPD. 0.75-0.89 is for strong Pfr dominance (short internodes, small but thick leaves), while 0,11-0,25 is for strong Pr dominance (long internodes, large thin leaves)

-Percentage of B:G:R (401-500) : (501-600) : (601-700nm)

2)Below the data of each bulb (Watts, duration, price, useful life) emiting the SPD, the result for that bulb is given. Results are the same than the old sheet, but some are more detailed, while i added the figures per $.

Figures for the life of the bulb are given in Mmols of photons (PPF, PYF) and in thousand of MJ (PUR). Dont mind, higher figures means better perfomance per buck. I supposed an average emission 85% of the initial, thinking in use figures for useful life as time to reach 80% initial emission.

Finally, i added the heat load that a bulb produces, as well as the whole system (if the ballast is inside the grow room). Data are in watts (Joules per second), but its easily convertible to other units (BTU, cal, etc).

Hope you like the new version. Any feedback and suggestions to improve it are welcome.

knna

Attached Files

	Bulbs analyzer_v2_sxc.zip (60.9 KB, 50 views)
	Bulbs analyzer_v2_xls.zip (66.0 KB, 43 views)

__________________


Bulb Analyzer Tool