Lizzie Borden

I am growing my first organic crop. I started with a mix of about 50% premium organic potting soil (label says it's made from "regionally formulated organic materials derived from: composted forest products, spagnum peat moss, vermiculite, perlite, ground dolomitic limestone, a wetting agent and water holding polymer). Then I mixed about 25% perlite and 25% vermiculite with it. My plants are in various stages of vegging and the only fertilizer I've used has been blood meal tea. They all look good.

I need some information on the use of organic fertilizers for flowering. I have studied this page http://www.geocities.com/nonamuss/organic_npk.html which lists NPK ratios for various organic fert mixes. I assume these mixtures should be worked into the soil prior to planting? How do you know what NPK to use if the plant will be in the same soil through vegging and flowering? Can I use these mixes in some other way? I know about making blood meal into tea, and I think fish emulsion is just diluted with water and applied to the soil. I have heard of steamed bone meal, but how would I steam bone meal? I know I also need kelp meal or something to supply micronutes. I figure the potting soil provided some micronutes to get them this far. I was going to use Earth Juice but it seems like kind of a ripoff if I can make my own fertilizers for much less. And I just spent $236 on a 1000W HPS.

Any links to good places to purchase these ingredients would also be appreciated. I live in a small town and can't get hardly anything locally.

I attached a pic of my favorite plant of this crop. She's healthier and stronger than any I've had before so I think organic is the way to go.

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organic

Hey Brindie

Nice looking plant

That sounds like a good soil media to start with. But, to answer your question, the formulas on that page are all meant to be incorporated into the soil. Ideally you would include them in the medium at the beginning of the grow, but it sounds like that will have to wait for the next crop.

Your question, then, is solubility. Not all organic ferts are soluble; in fact more of them are not soluble. Bone meal and rock phosphate, 2 of the more common P sources, are insoluble. Kelp meal, which provides K, growth hormones, micronutes, and some other goodies, is however water soluble. I have heard good things about liquid kelp extracts but haven't used them myself.

Your best bet for soluble P is most likely guano. Make sure to check the NPK as not all of them are high in P. Here's a link:
http://homeharvest.com/guano.html

If it were me, I'd make a guano/kelp extract tea to feed them during flowering. Make sure not to skimp on the K and your buds will end up denser.

I'm not sure where to get kelp extract, but I think if you do a search on it you'll find something. The subject got some discussion not too long ago.

Hope this helps
O

Lizzie Borden

Thanks, Organic. Just the answers I was looking for.

I am taking 12 clones off that plant tonight so I can grow a closet full of her.

Homeharvest is great. I got cave bat guano 3-10-1, liquid seaweed (they said it's the same thing as liquid kelp) plus fish emulsion for about $30 shipped. Seems pretty reasonable.

So for my next crop I will mix some nutrients into the soil before planting. Do you have any advice on which ones and how much should be used to get a plant all the way through its life? Or is it necessary to transplant into a new nutrient mix at flowering?

LedZppln

I think bone meal is high in P

organic

I can give you some suggestions but you should know that my background is in outdoor soil grows of crops other than mj. I don't have any specific formulas worked out for mj crops, but then again I rarely do that kind of thing anyway. I tend to work by feel more than anything, like a cook who uses recipes more as a guideline than a blueprint. So I apologize for not having more direct advice.

If you build your soil right, you shouldn't have to change it midway through the grow. One of the benefits of organic nutrients is that they become slowly available to the plant as they are broken down by soil processes, meaning if you put them in at the beginning of the grow they will be doled out through the length of it. This is one of the reasons compost is so important; the beneficial bacteria, fungi, and organic compounds it contains are essential to the process of liberating the nutrients from your fertilizers.

Actually, if you were wanting to change soil midway, you'd really have to make the flowering mix up well ahead of time to give the nutrients some time to break down. In my mind, the true value of organic method is this soil activity, because there are too many things to count going on in the soil beyond just the nutrient aspect; and most of these are beneficial to plant growth. Seeing as how chemical fertilizers tend to adversely affect soil life, this is why (IMO) organically grown plants are more robust than most grown with chemicals. You're starting to see the results in your plants, right? So the premise to live by when growing organically is: Feed the soil, rather than the plant.

If you're wanting to push production, it shouldn't hurt to give them a shot of a supplement once or twice during the grow. Maybe a 1/2 - 2/3 strength dose of fish emulsion/seaweed midway through veg, then a dose of guano tea/seaweed at the beginning of flowering. I'd be careful with the guano though, it's pretty hot stuff.

A good rule of thumb for using solid organic ferts is 1 tablespoon of each fert to every gallon of soil.

OK! that was a solid brick of information.

Thanks Brindie for asking intelligent questions about this subject It helps me to explain the subject better.

O

TRRU

i found this thread in the search for more knowledge of organic gardening. i want to go all organic next year, but along the way i found out you can use guanos as a tea.
something peculiar about that site above is that it doesnt say you can use the high P guanos (3 10 1 and 1 10 1) for a tea. im assuming that its because phosphorus isnt as soluble as theyd want you to believe, hence, my assumption in figuring that despite the fact you can make tea out of 10 3 5 or whatever, that the P is also just as insoluble in water. i could go more into detail but im hoping that you already understand how desperatly confused i am. i do realize that there is soluble and available, not too clear on it though.
i really want to get into organic gardening. by a few months time ill understand this much better, but for now i now i want to know if i can use that 1 10 1 guano for flowering. i have been using chem ferts as of so far and i know that it has some kind of biodiversity affect, whatever that means? and kills the microorganisms that break up the nutes. how would i go about it? would i lose time in waiting for the soil to be ready? my plants are in the ground in miracle grow garden soil mixed with a very little amount of perlite and a little indigenous sand.
if the 1 10 1 isnt meant for a tea, what if you did it anyway? what would the ratio be then? do you suggest that i dont use guano as a bloom fert? or, though id rather not, continue with the chems.
the whole soluble and available stuff in making teas and why the P isnt available until later, whether it is or not, is what confuses me at this point. thanks.
p.s. i like long long responses

Lizzie Borden

Actually homeharvest.com does say you can mix guano with water:

"Applied as a top dressing and worked into the soil or mixed with water and applied, guano will have a dramatic influence. Hydroponic growers, in contrast to normal fertilization, are finding that guano and water are a natural alternative to chemical solutions."

"Liquid application is one cup guano into five gallons of water."

Even if all the P is not water soluble, making it into a tea gets it into the soil where it can be further broken down and made available for the plants. The plants will have some P immediately, and some will be gradually released over time. This slow breakdown is why it's harder to burn plants with organics than chemicals. It's also why organics are usually applied fewer times over a grow than chemicals, sometimes only once when adding nutes and amendments to the soil in the beginning. So organics take more planning.

Water soluble means it will dissolve in water. Available means it has been broken down by soil organisms and is ready for the plants to use.

You can use 1-10-1 or 3-10-1 guano tea for flowering. They will do better if you use kelp with it, for K and micronutes. They really like kelp.

Chemical fertilizers kill some soil organisms. This has a negative effect on the way organic nutes become available, and also on other beneficial processes that occur in soil.

If you want to switch to organics mid-grow, give them a good watering first to flush some of the chemicals out. Since you're growing in the ground you won't have the problems with loss of soil life that someone growing in a container that had been treated with chemicals might. Or at least, it will return after you flush.

I grew this with 3-10-1 guano tea and kelp extract during flowering. I guess it works.

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