Moscow

so basically you use systemic foliar instead of fertelizers, right?
Can you use them in conjuction or should you choose one or the other?
And what are the pros and cons of either system?

Thanks for your help,
Moscow

Moscow

What are the ratios you recommend when mixing salts?
and
When you talk about GH, Canna, and BC nutes, are these brand names? If you recommend these, where can one find them?

Again, I appreciate all the information that you provide me.

Moscow

Delta

Yes, they are brand names.

GH - http://generalhydroponics.com/

Canna - http://www.canna.com/

B.C - http://www.technaflora.com/

Ratio's will be described in another more generalized post (later).

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Delta

No, this is incorrect.


If mixed properly, they can be used in conjunction.

Which system are you speaking of?

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ButterflyDreams

Great thread Delta. I can't wait till you get to the recipies and such. Ever thought of doing a Pot U series with someone? I'd volunteer.

I only have one question at this point.

In your post in response to the chelating question you listed 5ml/g as the concentration of STP. is the g grams or Gallons? (I'm guessing Gallons, just want to make sure.

Also you list it as applied @ 100-600ppm. THis means when I add STP I want my total res ppm to rise within that range, correct?

THanks for the wonderful post. I have a local nursery that stocks most of the salts in simple for, so I'll be able to start playing soon.

Smiles,
BD

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She stood beside him like a rainbow braided.
~ P.B. Shelley

Xzoomd

I have finally decided to just go with GHs
product line. I found a shoppe that sells
both growing & brewing "Stuff". (Taking into account that they also sell brewing supplies) Would it be too much to ask for a precise shopping list in the order of importance. Brewers yeast being at the bottom since I probably wont need it until the summer months. Also, if they sell food grade hydrogen peroxide, please throw that in there too.
I probably wont be able to afford the whole list, which is why I asked for a list according to priority.
Most importantly, I need to know which GH line...Blk. Diamond, MaxGrow, Kabloom, ect. Im growing in soil btw.

Thx
Xmd

Delta

Sulfur is an essential organic compound in the formation of plant proteins (in particular the amino acids cysteine, cystine, and ethionine) necessary for root development, metabolism function, respiration, and cell protoplasm. Again, sulfur in plants is found most often in proteins, volatile compounds, and sulfates. However, the amount varies in different families and genera. It is absorbed from the medium as divalent sulfate anions (SO4 2 -). Sulfates are also present in other compounds that contain sulfur such as the vitamins thiamine and biotin as well as coenzyme A; these are necessary for the synthesis and breakdown of fatty acids and can have a dramatic effect on taste, bouquet, and aroma. It has also been shown to increase the protein levels of most crops and promotes rapid root growth in almost all young plants. Sulfur also helps the plant maintain a peak green color while encouraging more vigorous growth, overall.

A (somewhat) special case with sulfur and with Magnesium, too. I haven’t really gotten too deep into deficiency symptoms purposely. But, I’m taking into consideration quite a few of the pics I’ve seen on this site and personal experience. It seems, to me, like quite a few cannabis plants show a specific lack of sulfur. A sulfur deficiency is (usually, but not always) noticeable on the top leaves of the plant. New leaf tissues are VERY pale (almost white) and veins appear yellow (anthocyanin accumulation). The new growth is rosetted, or bunched, and internodal spacing is very short. Overall growth is stunted. Without adequate S, the entire plant will appear light green to yellowish-green in color (neon). This is VERY similar to the appearance of plants having a shortage of N. In fact, plants REQUIRE Sulfur to use Nitrogen efficiently, and without Sulfur the plant will actually BE Nitrogen deficient at the same time it’s Sulfur deficient. These two deficiencies go hand in hand. The ratio of sulfur to nitrogen may be a better measure of the sufficiency of sulfur in the plant rather than total sulfur concentration.

Normally, sulfur is available from organic materials and is converted by bacteria into soluble and usable sulfates. Sulfur must be in the sulfate form to be used by plants; thus, elemental sulfur must be oxidized to the sulfate form to be ionically available. Elemental sulfur can be granulated or flaked with a binding agent, but prilled sulfur is not effective. Too much sulfur in the medium will manifest as excessively low pH, causing other nutrient deficiencies, too. Don’t over do it.

Like Magnesium, S is mobile in the medium (not in the plant) and it is subject to leaching and it should be a permanent fixture in your feeding regiment. This element (or lack of it) has prevented many of my plants from achieving perfect health. Consider this carefully when/if you suspect a Nitrogen or Potassium deficiency. The only sure way to tell if you have adequate amounts of sulfur is to understand your fertilizer (N:S ratio) completely. Or, have access to a GC/MS.

MOST COMMERCIAL FERILIZERS DO NOT CONTAIN SULFUR.

Many nutrient solution recipes call for approximately 50 ppm sulfur in the form of the sulfate anion (SO4-2). High concentration of SO4-2 ions generally do not cause any harm. So, like Magnesium (again), it’s hard to OD on sulfur. As much as the EC can handle should be OK (although I recommend experimentation). But extreme high levels can antagonize other ions. As always, balance is the key.

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Delta

Fertilizer Name, Total N (Nitrate) (%), P (%), K (%), Mg (%), Ca (%), S (%)
Ammonium Sulfate, 21, 0, 0, 0, 0.4, 24
Calcium Sulfate (Gypsum), 0, 0, 0, 0, 11, 15-18
Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom), 0, 0, 0, 11, 2.2, 14
Potassium-Magnesium Sulfate, 0, 22, 0, 0, 12, 28
Potassium Sulfate (Potash), 0, 0, 60, 0, 0, 18
Superphosphate (normal), 0, 20, 0, 0, 0, 12
Superphosphate (triple), 0, 20, 0, 0, 0, 12
Sulfuric Acid, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 20-23

There are a couple others not worth mentioning (as usual). There are so many different salts. But, for soluble sulfates, the best and most available forms are either Sulfuric Acid, Epsom, or Potash salts. It may seem that Ammonium Sulfate would be a good choice, but it is ammonium based and this can have adverse effects. A general rule of mine is to stay away from ammonium based chemicals. Blech!

Don't use elemental sulfur.

I already stated this earlier, but it can’t hurt to say it again. “So, to make a long story short(er) I prefer to use Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom Salts) because the resulting Sulfur analysis is appropriate when these two salt combos are used. Thus, eliminating the need to apply raw sulfates. Although, certain recipes are better suited to Magnesium Oxide [and another sulfate].”

To expand a little further on sulfur, I’d like to say that there are usually multiple sources. Both Sulfuric Acid and Potash are great and have adequate levels of sulfur for most mixes, too. But, if you also use Epsom Salts for Mg (in the same mix), you need to watch the N:S ratio. It should be 1:.5, for preflower, and some plants (especially sativas) like even more. While flowering, a good N:S is around 1:.25, but again, some plants like even more. Experiment!

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Delta

Calcium is a metal and extremely important to plants. It’s like spinach to Popeye. Calcium functions as a ‘glue’ in plant cell walls. It partially regulates cell wall permeability and works as an enzymatic cofactor, in particular the development of the middle lamella in the cell plate that arises between daughter cells. Plants cannot reproduce cells without Calcium because its importance in meiosis and mitosis (cellular reproduction) and it can be found in the mitotic spindle. It is also critical in signal transduction pathways by binding with calmodulin, a cytosolic plant protein. Together, calcium and calmodulin are involved in regulating many metabolic processes including plant responses to the environment (tropisms) and metabolic responses to plant growth-regulators. It is required as a cofactor in many enzymes involved in ATP hydrolysis and phopholipids although at high concentrations it may inhibit enxyme activity. Calcium also plays a significant role in increasing the percentage of seeds that germinate. It is also a necessary mineral aiding in cell division and growth of apical meristems. Finally and additionally, it aids our favorite plants in their ability to neutralize toxic acids formed in their metabolic processes.

Oh, and it assists in the balance of magnesium within the plant’s growth cycle.

Whew! Spinach, definitely. Pump up the can’, if you can, if you can … da da da … Pump up the ‘can, if you can, if you can! It’s lame, I know. Sugar rush.

Mmm … cheesecake!

Oh, yeah, in English.

Calcium occurs naturally and is a silver-white light metal. It oxidizes in moist air and the surface becomes coated with calcium oxide, hyrdroxide, and carbonate. These are refined for many uses including fertilizer salts. Calcium makes up of about 3.4 % of the earth's crust. This makes it the 5th most abundant element in the earth's crust and the third most abundant metal.

Calcium is required for plant growth, cell division and elongation. It improves general plant vigor and promotes growth of young roots and shoots. Calcium plays an important role in maintaining healthy plant metabolism and cell integrity.

Plants without sufficient calcium are severely retarded. Because calcium plays a role in cell division, the deficiency symptoms are observable at points of cell division. One may notice a downward hooking, or claw-like (similar to Nitrogen toxicity) and deformation of the affected leaves as well as general chlorosis

But, it seems that most strains of cannabis tolerate high doses of calcium. The excess is stored in the bracht, where a branch meets the main stem. Like little muscles! High doses can dramatically increase growth rate. However, excess Calcium may produce deficiencies in Magnesium and Potassium, or oxidize to an insoluble/unusable form known as calcium carbonate.

MANY COMMERCIAL FERILIZERS DO NOT CONTAIN CALCIUM.

Be careful with this one. It’s almost pure antagonist. Excess calcium (Ca) may inhibit plant growth and antagonize other elements in the solution such as boron (B), iron (Fe), manganese (Mn), copper (Cu), or zinc (Zn). And, surplus calcium reduces availability of potassium (K) and magnesium (Mg).

I usually keep my Ca separate and mix it, in the final solution, for immediate use.

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Delta

Fertilizer Name, Total N (Nitrate) (%), P (%), K (%), Mg (%), Ca (%), S (%)
Calcium Chloride (CaCl2), 0, 0, 0, 0, 36, 0
Calcium Oxide (CaO), 0, 0, 0, 0, 70, 0
Calcitic Limestone (CaCO3), 0, 0, 0.3, 3, 32, 0.1
Dolomitic Limestone (CaCO3+MgCO3), 0, 0, 0, 6-12, 21-30, 0.3
Selma Chalk, 0, 0, 0, 0, 32, 0
Gypsum (CaSO4-2H2O), 0, 0, 0.5, 0.4, 22, 17
Hydrated Lime (Slaked lime) (Ca(OH)), 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 50, 0

So many salts, so little time. But, as far as soluble calcium goes, the best and most available forms are Calcium Chloride and Calcium Oxide. Lime is a great additive for acidic soils but don’t try it with a pure water culture. Basically, I stay away from everything else.

Calcium Chloride is very easy to obtain from Home Depot, Lowes, Walmart, or almost any nursery. It’s sold specifically to control blossom end rot on tomatoes. Since Chlorine is also a required micronutrient, this is a good choice. But if you’re going for total control, there IS only one. Calcium Oxide.

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