AlterEcho

AlterEcho’s Formula

I started doing some research on nutrients while trying to come up with an easy and complete formula. Between trying looking into mobile and non-mobile nutrients, various formulas had me perplexed. Some manufacturers had more… some less. All seemed to accomplish reasonable success, but required frequent reservoir changes. So applying a standard of NPKMG (Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, Magnesium) to Mel Frank’s formula (100N-100P-200K-60Mg) I could compare different formulas.
So my goals are:
1) Since time is precious, I did not want to spend a great deal of it on mixing formulas. A one part formula would be ideal.
2) New growers often are perplexed when trying to mix hydro formulas. So, the formula should be simple.
3) Reservoir changes should be minimized, if not eliminated entirely.

Triflex has always been my “go to” formula. It has met most of my needs, but does not fit into the “easy to mix” category. I would have to dump and remix every two weeks. With some strains I had noticed an Mg deficiency. When looking at Triflex for growth (4-1-7-.5) I get 158-52-289-50. Triflex for flowering (3-4-5-.5) is 105-208-184-50. It then became clear that Triflex was lacking in the Mg department (not from hard water). The Nitrogen was inline since it gradually declined as I moved towards the flowering stage. Phosphorus increases as the flowering formula supplemented the growth formula (though it is quite strong, in the beginning and could contribute to my lacking Mg).

Lately, I have been using GH’s FloraNova products. I had previously purchased their product and have been trying to use up what I had left. So, I decided to take a closer look at their formula. FloraNova Growth (7-4-10-1.5) is 217-54-257-46. FloraNova Flower (4-8-7-2) is 124-108-180-62. Nitrogen looks strong for growth and trails off towards flowering. Same for Potassium and seems to drop enough to stop any magnesium lockout. Phosphorus climbs, as it should, towards flowering as well as Magnesium. But when using GH’s regular dosing I still suffered from various deficiencies.
So, what does all this mean? If we apply Mel’s formula it looks as though FloraNova has some real promise. It meets the “simple formula” requirement since it is a one part solution. It also will save time since I would not have to muck about with mixing.
Taking the above figures, I decided to try an experiment. My current grow is a 23 bucket (was 30 buckets but I became a victim of “Heave-Ho on several seeds) ebb and flow of Pot of Gold and two KC Brains Brain Damage. A few of the POG’s were suffering from deficiencies and I was just plain tired of trying to use supplements. So, I replaced my reservoir with fresh water and brought the PPM’s up to 800 (.5) (EC@1.6) with GH’s Growth Formula. Then, for the last 2 ½-3 weeks I have been topping off with the flowering formula(no res changes). I will continue this until harvest. The results, so far, have been astounding. New growth has taken off with the POG that were suffering. Deficiencies have disappeared and the rest of the POG have exploded in green growth. So a quick synopsis: Follow formula, below, and do not change the reservoir.

After this harvest, I will continue the experiment with my Apollo 11 or Trainwreck. I will go from start to finish using the formula below. This method might have been touched on before, but I cannot find anyone documenting it…or specifying this method. I wish I had this info, in the beginning. It sure would have made life easier.

AlterEcho’s Formula:
1) Start with a new tank of water
2) Add FloraNova Grow until desired PPM’s are reached
3) Climb PPM’s until desired PPM is reached for long growth period
4) Replace water as it is used and start topping off with Flower formula
5) Continue step 4 until harvest stage
6) No res change until flushing for harvest

Here are my stats:
30 Buckets
55 gallon reservoir
Flood every two hours
PH 5.8 to 6.0
Brand new and flushed LECA
Strains are Pot of Gold and KC Brains


You can see at the base, the issues I was suffering from. This caused the plant to be stunted with a lack of vigor. Plus it only affected some of the plants. So I had to fix some without creating problems with the other plants. The upper 2/3's of the plant are the results after my fert change.

CRAZYTRAIN

I'm glad your having such good results. How long do you veg for with this program?

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AlterEcho

This grow was vegged about 45 days. Once the seeds sprouted they were moved to the buckets and started with 200 ppm. Then, I slowly ramped up the PPM's until 800 ppm's (EC 1.6). Once I reached this level the growth formula was stored away. All topping off, from then on, was done with tap water and the flower formula.

-=AE=--

speedracer-x

FNBloom is my goto fallback when things go bad. You really don't even need the FNGrow since the bloom has a lot of N in it. Because FNBloom has so much N, I use less the last half of flower and supplement with a bloom booster. I figured that keeping the FNBloom as the base nute was a good idea since it has a fairly balanced nutrient profile, but I have been supplementing with some organic molasses that has a nutrient profile (for humans) of 20% potassium, 10% calcium, 15% iron, and 8% magnesium. This helps boost the K levels as well as adding cal-mag to the mix.

AlterEcho

Thanks for mentioning that speedracer-x. I had thought my next experiment would be to try the FloraNova Bloom, itself. But the lower Potassium level did bother me...and seems like you have hit that wall, also.

You would think that Potassium, being a mobile element, would have been absorbed before the flowering mixture has been applied. Evidently, there is enough Potassium left over to aid the flowering formula once this is added to the mix. Which makes me believe MJ only absorbs what it needs (with Potassium). Nitrogen seems to be another animal, all together. If it follows the Potassium profile you would think that the level of Nitrogen would be to much. But the strains I have grown are not showing this (hybrids). Either Nitrogen is easily handled by MJ or ignored (to a certain degree). Now the above could be due to the fact that I am running at an EC level of 1.6. This is below the recommended level for FloraNova.

Quick note: In this last grow, a Sativa pheno, has shown itself. I am not getting the leaf tip burn, but just a tad of leaf tip curl. This is with an EC of 1.6. At EC 1.4-1.5 the leaf curl stops...so Sativa based grows should probably look at an EC of 1.4-1.6 for a maximum fert level. This would only apply when using my formula.

One thing that has probably changed since Mel published his findings is the variety of strains. The MJ of today is a different animal when compared to the MJ of a few years ago. So Mel's numbers might not even apply, to a certain degree. But at least we have something to base our formulas on and are not totally groping in the dark.

My big thing is not having to change the reservoir. This should really help MJ patients that have physical limitations. These patients can become self-reliant and plan grows that truly fit their needs...instead of being limited by having to use smaller reservoirs. If one patient finds this formula useful, you cannot imagine the joy that will bring me.

-=AE=-

Here is an example of hybrid using the formula:

Quantrill

have you read this: HYDROPONICS RESEARCH: USU CROP PHYSIOLOGY LABORATORY

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Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't.

~Mark Twain

AlterEcho

I am looking at your link now...this looks like some great stuff.

BTW...love your sig.

-=AE=-

AlterEcho

An update on the Hydro Formula. I am currently at 47days flowering. Both strains are doing well and no notable deficiencies. I have not changed the res and the PPM's are at 800. Since I am running two strains I will probably run Clearex for five days instead of the normal flushing. Unless, I get lucky and both strains are ready to harvest at the same time.

-=AE=-

AlterEcho

I have started flushing and am heading into the harvest. Keeping the PPM's between 600-800 looks to make flushing, easy.The plants had already started burning up the Nitrogen. Plus, Clearex has changed their application directions. The bottle states 7-10 days pre-harvest flushing...but the web site has been changed to 2-3 days. So, I will flush with Clearex for 3 days and then move to tap water. I anticipate that the smoke is going to be super smooth...with the plants burning the Nitrogen, so fast (I guess another benefit from either the formula or the low PPM value...or both).

The next run will be with Apollo 11 Genius clones. I know this strain very well...so this will be the real test.

-=AE=-

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AlterEcho

Decided to update my use of the formula. I have started another Apollo 11 Genius run. I started at 200 ppm's and after two weeks have leveled off at 600 ppm's (PH 5.9). Since then I have only been adding water and ferts as needed. No reservoir changes, whatsoever. The plants look fantastic! Superb growth and the leaves look great. This is , by far, my best run with the Apollo. You guys should give this a shot...

BTW, I am running 30 buckets but only 26 or 27 clones pulled through. So, I replaced those buckets with new clones. The clones in those buckets did not have enough veg time so they will be quite stunted. Time to replace my mothers...

-=AE=-

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