swordfish

I am presently growing outdoors from bagseed. I have applied one application 6 weeks ago prior to mulching with coco fibre to retain some moisture and it seems lots of growers in hot climates spread a mulch over their soil to aid with the extremely hot days.
I have also been useing Grow Big every other watering and the plants are very lush.
I am considering adding one more application of Marine Cusine before flowering starts next month but would I need to remove the coco mulch that is covering the potting soil for a proper application? I was thinking I could just toss some around the base of the plants and it will filter down thru the coco mulch.
Some outdoor growers report outstanding results with bat quanos as a toppdressing as well. If I apply time release ferts like Marine Cusine, should I discontinue my use of Grow Big? I dont wish to burn my plants with nutes. They are however consumeing large amounts of water because of the very hot days and I would be pleased if I could use both Fox Farms products simultaneously with know ill effects.
Also if anyones used Marine Cusine as a replacement for Grow Big I would like to here your results.

Thanks.

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kawliga

Hey Swordfish

My thoughts:

Application: I would definitely remove your much for an application of any slow release fert. Just pull it back, scarify the soil around the plant to the extent of the canopy, then sprinkle the ferts, then blend in the top 2 to3 inches, then recover with Mulch.
FF has 2 good slow release ferts IMO, Marine cuisine and American Pride. I use both.
Marine cuisine is best utilized at the very beginning of the season in Spring, or in Fall prep of planting sites the season before you use. If you check the ingredients of MC you will see that it is a much slower release than american pride, and it takes a long time to get fully broken down in the soil before the plant can uptake. I had a real long discussion with the FF rep here in Ontario on this subject not too long ago, and he advised using the MC as I describe above....he recommended not to use it late into veg or early flower, as it will stay around right thru to flower, (maybe not in your neck of the woods as I think you have a pretty long season).
The American Pride is quite different in that it breaks down much more quickly and has a much shorter "lifespan" in the soil. I apply it as I outlined above.
I have used AP for many years, without any other supplemental feeding and it produced great results.
The key with either of these is to be real careful with timing of applications with respect to harvest. In past grows I have applied this too close to harvest, ( 3 to 4 weeks prior), and as a result my plants did not use N from the fan leaves etc....(pretty green and lush at harvest), and thus my smoke was harsher than it should have been.

This year I was able to get my hands on the FF solubles GB BB and TB, + the supplements and so far my regimen is as follows:

Start of season: MC worked into soil at transplant only.
Application of American pride worked into soil every 3 weeks.
Weekly feeding of Grow Big + Big Bloom, (4 to 5 gallons per plant)
Now also trying a twice weekly foliar feed, half strength Grow Big and big bloom on a few of my heavy feeders.

Whether or not you should combine the use of a time release and soluble fert really depends on your plants...if they are heavy feeders it should not be an issue. Try on a couple to see. My indicas can take as much as I can give and never show signs of over fert, however some of my sativa/Indica crosses are much lighter feeders and I do not use the time release and weekly feedings on them.

My recommendation would be to save the MC for early spring and get some American Pride. USe the AP with grow big as a trial....judging by the pics of your plants and their extensive growth they should have no problem with burn. The nice thing about AP is that it has a significant amount of bat guano in it wherein MC has little.

I am going to try some bat guano designed for use during flower this year, (never used before), supposed to fatten buds and effect a positive taste. You just work it into the top few inches of the soil.

SO for me, using the time release in conjunction with the solubles is working real well, (just need some sun), and they also can take the additional light foliar feeds ok so far.

I would just discontinue use of the time release a long way from harvest, (4 to 6 weeks), to ensure that your plant does not continue to suck too much N during final flower.

K.

__________________
I just cannot fathom that Marijuana, with all its history and medicinal properties, is illegal almost everywhere and yet alcohol, which has no redeeming qualities, is sold directly by the Government....shows the reality of our world doesn't it?

bakelite

kawliga,
Excellent post on Marine Cuisine and American Pride! I've been eyeing Marine Cuisine as it is rumored to be the ferts that are used in their Ocean Forest soil. Since I've had very good results with Ocean Forest i've been looking into using Marine Cuisine to make my own cheap knock of it. FFOF is kind of expensive and not readily available where I live (the closest store is a 2+ hour drive for me each way and shipping charges are pretty steep). Based on what you said about short term availability of the nutes American Pride may be a better choice.
Again very useful information, thx!
-bakelite

swordfish

Thank you for your knowledge of MC and the rest of FF's lineup and your views on applications Kawliga which seem right on the money. I will have tell late October before a harvest sets in, so I think a lite feeding worked into the top two inch's after pulling back the mulch as you described sounds like my plan. It was early May when I applied the first app and they loved it.
Im only anticipating one more feeding with the Grow Big before flowering starts for me in late August. At that point Big Bloom and some mollases is all I plan on useing.
I may acquire some RO water in late flowering for a good flushing of my container plants at the end of the season but that's about it.

Once again Kawliga thank you for the time you put into your response.

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kawliga

My Pleasure Swordfish....least I can do for the enjoyment reading some of your posts.

You don't use FF Tiger bloom? any reasons?.... a few of my girls in preflower really like it so far along with the open sesame supplement....I saw noticeable improvement in bud sites and development...just like they say on the jar of open sesame
K.

__________________
I just cannot fathom that Marijuana, with all its history and medicinal properties, is illegal almost everywhere and yet alcohol, which has no redeeming qualities, is sold directly by the Government....shows the reality of our world doesn't it?

Treadwell

glad you asked sword.

I had been told previously that American Pride was a good fert for gardens that dont have daily access.

I was looking at the marine quisine as well though. Just hadnt gotten any reviews.

Kawliga, you say somthing about a fall application of M.C.? You mean to till a fair amount into soil in fall as prep for the upcoming spring?

Ive done that quite a few times with Humus and manure composts. So you saying i can also use this as another soil amendment?

My plants are usually matured enough when they go out that i can feed the hell out of them with no noticable damage.

Another experienced opinion on this stuff is needed.

With heavy feeders would you suspect any issues with adding the M.C. as an additional amendment to the humus/manure that i already use.

Id hate to out that stuff completely since its shown me alot of kindness in the past.

__________________
If a pot plant grows in the woods, and no one is around to smell it, does it make a scent?

2009 OUTDOOR - failed lunar grow

BREEDING AUTOS - hempy style

kawliga

Morning Treadwell

Application of MC in the fall is as you suggest....amend the soil in your planting sites so that by Spring shes good to go. One way to put it IMO is that MC is a little more of a soil conditioner as opposed to AP which is more direct ferts. I would see no problem adding it to your own mix at all. The FF rep just advised that it is a waste to apply MC anytime other than early to late Spring, maybe into early summer latest.

My girls are super heavy feeders and like you I put out plants that are at least 12 to 18".
My feed schedule below is pretty heavy....and so this past weekend i literally TRIED to burn the girls by a super concentrated mix of grow big and big bloom, 5 gal per plant....5 tsp/gal GB and 5 tbsp/gal BB
Results: absolutley no burn, and noticeable growth as of yesterday.
It will be tough for me to be convinced to use any other fert line in the future....thats for sure. Its just too bad that I have to drive 5 hours to get my supplies, and also that the FF supplements are so expensive here in Canada. I paid just a little over 300.00 CDN for a soil pak: 1 gallon grow big, 1 gal Big bloom and 1 gallon tiger bloom..open sesame, beastie bloomz and the other flower solid fert....big buck IMO. The smaller bags, (4Lb) of American Pride and Marine Cusine were $30.00 each....

Take it easy
K.

__________________
I just cannot fathom that Marijuana, with all its history and medicinal properties, is illegal almost everywhere and yet alcohol, which has no redeeming qualities, is sold directly by the Government....shows the reality of our world doesn't it?

Treadwell

Thanks Kawliga. I would have guessed the time span given for all the elements to break down would have rendered burn nearly impossible, but alwasy best to check before injuring plants.

There is alot of clay in soil around here so minerals and such arent somthing i worry much about getting back to my plots.

The clay however does seem to lack a little of the nutrient values i want in there.

My thoughts are that if i add the MC to my normal soil builders and feed with some of the American Pride June-August it may give them a strong enough nute base that itll save me alot of hiking to planting sites.

Seems like you have more than enough experience with the FF lineup. Thanks for the input.

__________________
If a pot plant grows in the woods, and no one is around to smell it, does it make a scent?

2009 OUTDOOR - failed lunar grow

BREEDING AUTOS - hempy style

swordfish

My results with Tiger Bloom has always ended in failure, so I havent used it for some time. Even when I used a very small amount on some indoor plants some time ago I burned the hell out of them. This has happened a couple of times, so I gave up on the stuff and vowed never to use that stuff again.

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Treadwell

Also good to know since i was debating investing in some of that for the flowering phase of the outdoor plants.

__________________
If a pot plant grows in the woods, and no one is around to smell it, does it make a scent?

2009 OUTDOOR - failed lunar grow

BREEDING AUTOS - hempy style