14u24me..wha ?

so what is the concensus on foiar feeding [spraying the leaves with fertilizer] during budding.im using SHULTZ 10-60-10.iknow about the"dont feed 3wks before havesting "thing,but what about prior to that?from what i gather ,soma do and soma dont something about nitrate salt build up?!

14u24me..wha ?

oh...and if i were to spray how often could i do it.like every time i look at it.no,really..once a day ....twice maybe

Highguy

Stay away from this type of foliar feeding. I use Blood Meal Tea and Fish Emulsion solution to foliar feed. The fish sauce (don't get it on your skin) keeps pests away. There are no salts here. The blood tea is the most water soluable N you can get. There is a very good spectrum of trace in both the sources. If used correctly the burn risk is very low and huge rewards.

ButterflyDreams

If you plan to foliar feed during flowering do it at the beginning of the light cycle and make sure you have plenty of air movement.

Buds tend to hold moisture and will start to grow fungus if they stay too wet.

BD

14u24me..wha ?

what about a compost tea [mostly leaf
mold] while im on the subject,when one
flushes three wks prior to [that
beautiful word] HARVEST can i use a tea
instead of straight water.what would be a
good tea to use

Highguy

I really have no idea how "Compost Tea" would work. The Blood Meal is very chaep and easy to mix. Blood meal helps in several ways. Firstly Blood Meal Tea supports soil chemistry by adding organic material to the growing meadia. Organic material is the base for all life. To have healthy plants you need healthy soil. Healthy soil contains organisims that breakdown raw nutrient so the plant roots can absorb them. Blood meal feed the soils bacteria with a food source that can be used as soon as it hits. If you mix up enough tea the bacteria levels will increase as the tea sits in a warm grow area. The pH remains constant during use. Blood Meal is also the highest soure of water soluable N you can find in an organic. I have posted about the use of the Rapid Grow and Peters, they are both fine products to use however the N comes from Urea. Urea is a byproduct of the plastic industry. Urea has very very high burn potential. Urea is not an organic source of N. This type of fertilizer can really effect the pH of any soil if over used. I will try and explain the chemistry involved. If anyone finds an error please correct me.

When urea is applied to soil, it reacts with water and the soil enzyme urease to produce plant-available ammonium (NH4). This process is called urea hydrolysis. It occurs rapidly under warm moist conditions. The combination of high temperature, moist soil and large
amounts of urease results in a rapid formation of ammonium. When urea is surface-applied, the formation of ammonia (NH3) at the soil surface may occur and be lost
to the atmosphere. When urea is banded with the seed, ammonia can also form causing injury to the seed. The severity of both processes depends largely on the concentration of ammonia formed.

The concentration of ammonia that forms depends primarily on three factors:
1) The concentration of the urea in the soil. (and how the urea is forumlated in solution)
2) The soil pH around the urea particles for the first 3-5 days following urea application.
3) The rate of hydrolysis in soil. The higher the concentration of urea the faster the hydrolysis and the more ammonia formed. The faster this reaction, the less time for any ammonia (NH3) to diffuse into the soil.

The soil pH in low-buffered sandy soils increases significantly during the process of urea hydrolysis. The soil pH around a urea particle may get as high as 8.5.
When this occurs ammonia volatilization can easily take place. Fine textured soils have a higher buffering capacity and therefore can supply more hydrogen ions to resist the change in soil pH around the urea particles
thereby reducing the amount of ammonia formed. Therefore, ammonia volatilization losses would be expected to be higher on coarse textured soils than fine textured soils. Now if anyone can understand the above you can see why overusage of the cheap Grocery Store fert can cause most problems that are described on this web site. Yellow-Brown burned leaves are a sure sign of ammonia volatilization.
You are looking for the ammonia to form as the reaction that takes place is what leaves the N behind. Soil Chemistry is very complex. It's not easy to fit a graduate course here on this site. Hydrogen ions are what prevent the burn, so if you use a source thatboost the supply of hydrogen ions you can decrease the burn risk. Thats what the Blood Meal does for you. I hope this explanation helps some of you.

14u24me..wha ?

and i thought urea was another word for
urine!? learn something
everyday.....thanx a ton. by the way i
chose not to foliar feed,second time i
sprayed with 10-60-10 i received a slight
burn.is the burnt stuff safe to smoke?

robyoung

I think the first Urea extracts where taken from urine {high guy might know for sure}.

I think it was first discovered in cow pee.

The chemical breakdown that u explained sounds like the explaination I read for the soil deprivision of broad achre farming we are experiencing in Aus.

Now of course, a smaller area, and smaller amounts of Urea may equall the same result,but sane amounts of Urea in controled amounts of soil that is thrown away isn't likely to experience this build up in a single 3 or 4 month crop cycle is it?

As for the burn, that will happen from over fertalising with anything.

I think Urea ought to be banned, what u went to extremes to detail above is what has happened to our soil in Australia from too much Urea being used, extensively, and soley for too long.

To put it all in laymans terms, and please correct me if I am wrong, Urea has the unique ability of exploding nutrients out of soil, and leaching it away with downpours of rain, leaving behind a highly increased salt level and diminished soil nutrient levels in paddocks that have abused the product.

Of course the true definition of fertility is shown in how much animal life the soil can maintain in the humus level that has been built up in a proper method of gardening/farming.

But it's unlikely there will be a mass conversion to bio-dynamics overnight, and it might be hard to re create the situation indoors in pots anyway.

Besides, organic or chemical, if u fertalise in the fashion that u described, won't the plant still be taking up nutrient through the tap roots, and the feeder roots will again be searching for what isn't there?

That is to say, the plant will still be sustained in a manner that isn't natural, and it doesn't matter what soil biology u enhance into the pots or in the garden over the short period of time, the plant will drink up what it wants through it's tap root, be it Urea, or Blood.

I am a convinced permaculturalist, and have been or some years now.
I agree with u, I am just concerned that people out there are going to gointo a mad panick over all this.

I think there is probably no safe level to use Urea, if u want to continue to use your soil over and again, as in a farm, but as I say, in pots for a few months; that will be disposed of at the end of the crop; it really doesn't make a big dif.

Or in the garden where planting areas can be rotated.

I suppose we could get into a great ecological debate, but I would only agree with u.

I just hope to lay away any panic that someone less experienced than yourself in growing pot may have going through their minds because they have ben using a tiny bit of Urea.

I simply think that used in sane amounts in disposable quantities of soil, it won't hurt any plants.

Just change the system u r using next crop.

I could be wrong, and will probably be told so by a barrage of posts, but I would have to see some sort of practicle demonstration of build up, in sane hands in a short period of time to be convinced.

The only exception to that would be if the plants are grown in a hidy place in the scrub that needs to be reused over and again, and I can tell you from experience, that lugging extra weight to plots on mountain sides isn't going to happen if there is an easier alternative.

I used bad chemical feratilsers for years, and always got top yeilds, that's why the farmers overused it for so long, it worked so well.

It just has terrible long term results on the soil.

Of course with the newer,more delicate varieties of pot that are being grown, there could be massive problems short term I suppose.
I dunno.
I grew pretty much straight sativa for years, pretty tough dope plants.


rob

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I'd understand the spaces
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bgetting

Well here is my meager addition:
Urea is also in urine, for those above that are confused. Also, the thing above about urea is very good, except for a few things. Fertilizers that have N derived from urea can mean 2 things. Either the urea has previously been processed into NH4 and NO3, or there is still urea in the fert,and it is meant as a slow release. More often than not, the urea is preprocessed, so that what you are getting is useable N. However this doesn't mean that it will burn any less. chemical ferts are like that.
Also, the urease in the soil (the "soil" enzyme talked baout above) does not just appear in the soil. It is a protein that is made (like all proteins) by living organisms. So there needs to be bacteria, fungi, and other microbes in your soil for that whole process to begin.
Rob tackled most of the other issues pretty well. Urea can be used very effectively if used as part of a total soil ecology plan. By itself, as a quick fix (which it seems everyone wants, instead of health, sustainable agriculture) urea is not a good idea. Some of those lockout things are results of direct experiments, and not shown to be what happen de novo.

organic

Thanks Rob & Bg