GanjaGreen

What organic fertilizer would be best for veg. growth and which would be best for flowering?

lilbuddie

Well, I am still getting up on organics but more than likely you will need a combination of different stuff to make a "complete" solution for feeding.

Or you could buy the premixed, concentrated organic feed that is already complete and you just add water.

I guess I should pull together a list of organics and what they contain huh? I'll see when I can get around to it.


Generally, you want a high N for veg and high P for flowering.

LB

[This message has been edited by lilbuddie (edited July 19, 2000).]

Warloc730

I'll try it out...


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, helvetica, Arial">code:</font><HR><pre>

From The Deluxe Marijuana Growers Guide By Frank and Rosenthal

COMMON ORGANICS*** AND NPK RATIOS**:


Percentages of N P K

Pig poop*-----------.5 .3 .5

Rabbit poop*--------2.4 1.4 ?6?

Human poop*---------.51 .1 .23

Cow poop*-----------.29 .17 .35

Chicken poop*-------1.65 1.5 .85

Horse poop*---------1.65 1.5 .85

Blood Meal----------15 1.3 .7

Bone Meal-----------4 21 .2

Coffee Grounds------2 .36 .67

Corn Stalks---------.75 .4 .9

Cottonseed Meal-----7 2.5 1.5

Dried Blood---------13 3 -

Chopped Fishes------7.75 13 3.8

Greensand----------- - 1.5 5

Oak Leaves----------.8 .35 .15

Crustacean Shells---4.6 3.52 -

Wood Ashes---------- - 1.5 7

Feathers------------ 15 ? ?

Hair---------------- 17 ? ?

Crushed Granite----- - - 5

Rock Phosphate------ - 33 -


* This test was done on fresh weight (80%-85% water), dried poop would contain much better percentages.

** P and K are also known in their unusable elemental forms. These can be broken down by microbes into potash and phosphoric acid for the plant to use. This was taken into consideration and mathematical calculations were done to determine the relative available P and K.

*** These organics could easily be quite different from the organics you are used to.
[/code]

I never understood the facination with organics in soil-less mixes...can somebody explain that one for me?

I'll stick with my chems for now.

My fingers hurt...

-War

Delta9

Fish emulsion - 5-1-1
I also like my chems for a number of reasons. I know people believe organics taste better but I think a good leaching will wash out any chemicals. The plants don't care where the nutrients come from, just that they get them and in the proper amounts. The argument that chems pollute the enviroment doesn't fly with me either. They'll be produced whether or not we use them. Is it better to mine the land and harvest the sea for their treasures rather than use the by-products of the oil industry? And blood, bone, hair and hooves come from a varity of sources. Most disturbing is from deadstock which can have died from god knows what. I posted an article about this somewhere in here about the possability of disease transmission from this practice.
But the choice is yours, use what you're comfortable with...
D9

Warloc730

I might as well also include Frank and Rosenthal's remarks about each fert.


Blood Meal - N readily available.

Bone Meal - Releases nutrients slowly.

Cow Poop - Fresh, 80% water. Excellent soil conditioner; apply in winter or compost for use in spring. Medium availability.

Coffee Grounds - Highly acidic; best for use in alkaline soils.

Corn Stalks - Break down slowly; chopped stalks make excellent conditioner for compact or dense soils.

Cottonsedd Meal - Highly acidic; nutrients become available over the course of the growing season.

Dried Blood - More soluable than blood meal.

Chopped Fishes - Use in compost or turn under soil several months before planting; usually slightly alkaline.

Greensand - Mined from old ocean deposits; used as soil conditioner; it holds water and is high in iron, magnesium, and silica.

Chicken Poop - Dried; fast acting fertilizer. Breaks down fastest of all poops.

(Warlockian note: Chicken poop smells strong enough to make anything green. NOT FOR USE IN INDOOR GARDENS )

Horse Poop - Fresh, 60% water; medium breakdown time.

Oak Leaves - Break down slowly.

Pig Poop - Fresh, 85% water; balanced fert; medium breakdown time.

Rabbit Poop - Fresh; most concentrated of all farming poops.

Crustacean Shells - Shrimp, lobster shells; break down slowly; contain large amounts of lime.

Wood Ashes - Very fast acting; alkaline; contains many micro nutes.

Human Poop - Fresh; 80% water (yeah right...tell me that after I eat nothing but fruit for a few days), should be well composted or pasteurized to prevent disease. Breaks down slowly to media.

(Warlockian note: Please don't attempt this. You are just inviting human harming diseases into your media, and thus into your plant [think of bubonic plague]. The NPK percentages really suck. How would you feel knowing that you actually used your own poop to grow your weed? Sounds kinda barbaric to me.)

Feathers - Breaks down slowly unless washed of oils.

Hair - Cheap fertilizer and good conditioner; oils slow breakdown.

Crushed Granite - Gradually available.

Rock Phosphate - Gradually available.

I really hope I get a real computer soon...Then I'll be able to cut and paste with the new CD-ROM version of the grower's guide instead of typing all this crap out.

-War

lilbuddie

Wow, turn my back and .....

Thx for the the type up there Warloc

Hmmm ... so my take on organics ... Well, I guess the fact that they don't burn the plants as easily as chem ferts do is one reason I started looking at them. Less salt build up so don't have to worry as much about flushing or watching for excess build-up.

Although I still do use chem ferts (just so damn convienant ). Actaully I am using both chem and organic. I am finding that I really like the idea of being able to tweak your food in the NPK area want more N add Fish Em, BM, etc...
As far as the taste ... I am planning a little experiment with this next crop I think. I have already done a test with flushing 2 weeks prior to harvest and did notice a tremdeous difference so that debunked what alot of people where saying about it not amking a difference

I must say that Earthworm Casting absolutely DO ROCK! I have mixed it in with a plant this round to see the effects but I had previuosly experimented with on my house plants. I used it as a bedding and they absolutely love a 1" layer on top of the soil! My poor plants are all guinea pigs! LOL!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I never understood the facination with organics in soil-less mixes...can somebody explain that one for me?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think this may be due to a lack of understanding about the needs of a real soil mix vs a soilless mix. Ppl just think that they are gonna grow like a bean stalk because it is "natural". But hey whaddu I know

LB

organic

Warloc that was huge typing in all that info, there is a ton of useful information in there.
thanks for sharing.

Can't help but weigh in on this one. IMO organic produce tastes noticably better than its chemically grown counterpart. Until I started eating organic, I always assumed the faint (sometimes not-so-faint) bitter edge of fruits and vegetables was natural, when in fact it is the taste of pesticide and chemical residue. It's not a lot, but it's there. I don't, however, think most people really notice it. but to those who do, it makes a difference.

stands to reason that it would have similar effects with marijuana as well.

beyond that I don't know if I agree with some of D9's arguments in favor of chemicals:

The first argument is heard often from proponents of chemical farming, and to a certain extent it's true. But IMO we don't know *exactly* what plants need - granted we know a lot, but not everything. And plants have been growing and excelling for millions of years feeding off of organic substances that contain far more chemical/organic compounds (some of which we don't understand) than you would find in, say, Miracle-Gro. Plus it is my belief that the organic interaction between the plant and the soil and its constituents - earthworms, fungi, bacteria, insects, decomposing plant material - is important to the health of the plant. They just don't get ultra-refined, distilled nutrients like chemical fertilizers in nature. All of this is debatable of course.

The second argument, however, is an awfully slippery slope.
No, they won't. If people don't buy them they won't be on the market.

And yes, it is better to use the bounty of the land and the sea. For one thing, the things we take from it get returned to it - in other words, they are renewable. Petroleum is not. Beyond that, for the most part organic substances do not harm the environment the way chemicals can and do. Another way of putting it is: chemical farming is not sustainable over the long term.

Do you have any evidence to back up your belief that chemicals don't pollute the environment D9?

not trying to start a flame war here but this is definitely an interesting discussion...

organic

lurkapup

Ive been using liquid worm castings since my second grow and they've been the biggest change in my growth .. ok I lie the 400w sonagro vs my 300w flouros was the biggest change but the lushness and growth of the plants has definately been better and seemed healthier since I started with the worm castings ..

I guess they're very specific so simply using a general fert when Im N deficient ends up having lots of weird knock on effects .. like over ferting in other areas ...

Someone once told me weed grows like .. well weeds .. lieing gits Ive never seen weeds so hard to grow ... well I spose I dont want them to 'just grow' .. I want them to thrive to multiply to BLOOOM

Re: organics .. there are a number of arguments in the organics vs chems debate. Ive been getting up to speed on some of them lately since a friends doing her phd on the discourses around GE which share a lot of parallels .. A big one people use is taste .. organics are commonly proported to taste nicer, cleaner and more natural (Im not sure on this one myself and sometimes wonder how much of the 'oh this is sooo good' comment comes from the knowledge that is organic and the ethos (or mythos depending on your view ) that organics are healthier). The other big argument .. which seems to be more relevant to this thread is the debate between modernism (Delta 9) and environmentalism (Organics) ..

Modernity (which interestingly enough parallels a lot of christian ethos of harvesting the world and that the world was created for 'man' (sic) to reap the riches from blah blah) says that chemicals etc exist naturally and that it is acceptable and ok to redistribute these to where they are needed and that the earth is capable of adapting to the changes we impose .. and that if it produces a benefit for humanity (I think bigger buds qualifies ) then its all good and lets go for it....

Environmentalism says what a crock and prove it you mad scientists The use of chemical ferts in agriculture has been big business for decades, but now there is increasing awareness of some effects such as build up in the soils and leeching of secondary minerals that are all well recognised on this board .. so what else dont we know? what impact does the higher concentrations that the plant takes up (potetnially higher than might occur naturally) have on us as regular smokers? Yes the world can adapt to most of the ****e people chuck at it .. but in the end environmentalism isnt about saving the world .. its about saving us .. since in a couple of hundred thousand years gaia will have sorted out the nice little sess pit we've built .. but if we dont change our habits and start questioning our assumptions of how we intereact with our envirnonment then we may not be

In a lot of ways it comes down to organics question at the end of his post ... what evidence do you have that chems ferts are ok? (which is a great question on so many levels ) ... its about participating in the status quo when you use chemicals .. you're telling science that the direction they are going in is ok, you're indirectly supporting GE, globalisation, corporate monopolies and all the other hegemonic structures that in my view are sucking the fun (and life out of life ...

Its not so much what is natural anymore .. since whats natural about me sitting here with artificial light talking to groups of people accross the world about raising indoor plants .. and some things that are unnatural are great ... but at least think about the pros and cons .. and try and challenge the norms ... just because chems are the mainstream today they dont have the same history and depth of tradition that organic growing has behind it .. yet organic growers are continually required to defend their choices and methods .. just like people who choose not to eat meat, harvest animals, opose McDeath etc ..

ummmm errrr.. ok Ill get off my soapbox now .. just wanted to ummm kinda offer some other ways of thinking about the issue

ka kite ano