bucks8n

OK, I'm a newb to this but have multiple probs with some of my plants. I think one key cause but some other things may be issues... Sorry this is real long through trying to be specific - hope it don't put everyone off!!! I'll try and post pics tomorrow

1. Are you growing from seed or clones?
Seed. Growing in pots with soil mix in back garden. Answers here.

2. How old are your plants?
Germed 9 end April, under lights for May (24/7) outdoors 1st June, sexed early June and 6 boys thrown out

3. How tall are your plants?
1 x Biddy Early = 3' ish

3 x Mazars = 2'

4. What size containers are they planted in?
Biddy Early + 1 mazar in 25 litre pot ((2' diameter)

Other mazars in 18 litre pot

5. What is your soil mix?
Started in basic peat-based compost + perlite, potted up into big pots with this mix:

35 litres West+ non-peat based compost
20 litres perlite
5 litres vermiculaite
20ish litres coco coir
20 litres worm castings
1 1/2 litres blood/fish/bone meal
Handful epsom salts (magnesium)

Since potting up into this it hasn't quite kicked them up a gear as hoped, more stunted and made them look unhappy - though that did coincide with a major downturn in the weather...

6. How often do you water and what type of water do you use?
Hmmm - outdoors, ain't watered them in an age as it's been raining, and raining and raining and raining - now have them in plastic greenhouse things to help keep water off with pots raised. Main probs are def from overwatering (it rained for like a week non-stop!!!)

7. What is the pH of your water?
Rainwater = unknown (neutral expected), tap water = unknown (will test)

8. What kind of fertilizer do you use and what is its NPK ratio?
Used some tomorite (4:4.5:8 plus 200mg/kg Magnesium) when in earleir soild mix - have used nothing since potting up into mix above as figure there's prob too many nutes in sopil mix if anything!

9. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights")

The sun - on the odd occasion it comes out...

10. How close are your lights to the plants?
91 million miles

11. What size is your grow space in square feet?
Plastic greenhouse things are like 1' deep by 4' wide by 5' tall.
2 plants in each - close and not ideal but keeps em drier!

12. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space?
Bl**dy ridiculous! It's supposed to be summer! Tewmp is like 10C outdoors!!! Variable from 50F to mid 60s F
Humidity = rain, rainy, rain...

13. What is the pH of the soil?
Bang on 6... Have read conflicting advice (aim for 6 vs under 6.5 inhibits nute uptake)) as to whether this is good or not so DIDN'T add lime to the mix, but have some I could add but not sure how much, or how - advice VERY welcome!!!

14. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space?
Have torn out the weeds nearby that were infested with white flies Have had some leaves nibbled through and have found blackfly under leaves too, also aphids on a nearby plant.

Have now sprayed down with insecticide and use an organic insect repellant (as recommended here and in nursery guide) every few days.

Have also previously made up the one in growfaq with tobacco juice - fingers now crossed I ain't brought in TMV - (Hmmm does someone want to add a note or remove that one from the growfaq as it's NOT GOOD due to high TMV risk!!! )

15. How much experience do you have growing?
TOTAL - with some advice from a less climate-challenged friend, and a decent read through the background of this place!


Symptoms - where do I start???
Let's do it by variety and badness:

Mazars - pretty healthy but...
Tips of older fan leaves yellowing. Soil was pretty soggy, slowly drying out.

New growth pretty minimal - small stunted curling leaves.

Some leaves a bit chowed on but think they're now under control.

Q - Is the leaf tip discolouration likely to be over-watering or pH inhibition of nute uptake?

Biddy 'oh my god please live' Early

Started well... all gone a bit wrong!!

New growth:

VERY stunted - new leaves forming in very spindly way - some little more than brown strong.
Leaf tips curling and corkscrewing.
Leaves curling under and not growing much.

Fan Leaves:
1 with yellow/dead spots on it.
Others are showing yellow/brown patches turning to brown/dead in middle of fan leaves (between veins).
Curling under - some tightly.
Stiff/breakable leaves.

Some leaves are almost dead - shoudl they be pruned or kept?

Questions and initial thoughts on solutions
Are all these symptoms likely to be traceable to over watering and insects? OR are there other underlying issues - growth has seemed less good since potting up into the rich mix rather than kcking off.

I think my main problem has been the soil got wet and stayed that way - which I'm trying to control by keeping it dry and *hoping* it will dry out soon (and summer might start - though it's gonna flood this weekend in most places!!!). Once this has happened and I get to water them myself what should I do:

I'm bit worried about soil flushing that I'd just extend the over-watering issues... Would flushing with H2O2 be an idea (with risk of SLOW dry out) or just deal with what nature's given me?

Should I try and sort out soil pH - raising it nearer 6.5 - and if so how should I add any lime?

I scheme wait and keep trying to get soil dry and keep bugs off - then deal with the next set of issues...

Anyone else with experience of growing in an often wet environment (think Washington State/ BC type climate and you're there...) with pearls of wisdom would be grand!

Note to self: Next time use MUCH higher proportion of perlite!!!

HydroSan

Hi bucks8n, welcome to GC

So close but yet so far mate....

I'm no expert on soil mixes, when I grew outside up north in the rainy city, I just used B&Q standard multi purpose compost (peat) mixed 50/50 with perlite, and fed em a teaspoon of phosphogen tomato food every week, watering when neccesary by feeling the weight of the container, let em get light before giving a full watering, then wait until they're light again. It was some of the best stuff I ever grew

I think most of your problem is due to the soaking, MJ doesn't like overwatering at all. The leaf tip yellowing, and clawing down, indicate nutrient burn, but since you said it was between the veins it could indicate a deficiency, which could be a pH issue, or a lockout issue with all that Mg in there.

Are they flowering yet? if not I'd repot into a cleaner mix and let em recover, I would drop the epsom from the mix, and substitute the west for non ferted peat mix, drop the coir as it just bulks out the media with no real gain, use maybe 20% worm casts. That sounds like a good recovery mix to me, you can then feed as required.

If they're already flowering you may be better sucking it and seeing what happens

Maybe a soil expert type grower can give some better advice on recovering with that mix, I'd be tempted to see what they do once they dry out a bit. Open the sides to allow some air into that B&Q special

Good luck matey

San

bucks8n

They're still in veg - a way off flowering.

Hmmm - my mate/mentor raved about the coir hance adding it...

Only a tiny hadful of epson in with all the rest (2 bins worth once mixed up, was working from this mix as far as I could...) but can't help but notice that my next germing attempt didn't sprout in the mix wheereas first time in plain old B&Q they did fine...

So - drill holes in the sides??? IDea I hadn't thought of but makes a lot of sense...

Bitch though as it was a pretty pricey mix to make up! Worm castings are kinda hard to get hold of and not so cheap - plus I've cleared out my local garden centres of perlite!!! THink I'll wait a few days and see how they do once dried out, then rethink and maybe repot...

Thanks for the tips - think I should'a started easier like you did. At least my garden ain't been washed away like much of the north this week (and prob moreso this weekend!!!)

dontask

The mix sounds alright.
From the 10 seconds I glanced at this post and i have to go to work, i'd say its a pH issue.

Didnt notice any "Dolomite Lime" in your mix.

Whats the pH?

__________________
* Anything I say is a result of complex chemical and electrical reactions occuring in my brain and should not be taken as any sort of tangible existential proof.

HydroSan

as I said, no expert on mixes, there you go

Yeah, drilling side holes can help, there's a whole big thread on it somewhere but the chuck up was that sidey holes are good

check out your local hydroponcs shop for perlite and wormcasts etc, good ones stock all the soil goodies too there's at least a dozen decent shops in the NW area, if you can't find casts or whatever you're after, send me a PM and I'll tell you somewhere friendly to get it you'll be going hydro before you know it anyway

San

redeyez69

bucks8n i feel for you pal im in northwest and i had 3 of my girlies flowering outside (bringing em in every night at 6pm till this bloody shit weather hit us)now they been relocated under a 400w hps til we get sunshine and are now booming with growth after 3 days also sounds like overwaterin too,will try and find pics of mine when they were in same boat sit it out pal before you know it they will be bringing big smiles to your face

all the best with your grow pal

bucks8n

Was hoping for tips on how to add lime after the event - IF it's needed...

pH is bang on 6 - or was, haven't re-tested recently.

Sun's been out today so HOPEFULLY they'll have dried a bit...

dontask

Transplant +remix wirh fine granules of lime.

Aim for 6.5 or so

__________________
* Anything I say is a result of complex chemical and electrical reactions occuring in my brain and should not be taken as any sort of tangible existential proof.

bucks8n

Tried transplanting - tht toe the root ball to shreds which was kinda my wors case scenario - have repotted into a smaller pot with a mix with extra perlite an some lime.

Doubt the biddy will survive

HAve also tested water pH with strips and it comes in at 5, rainwater at 5.5!

But a digital pH meter shows soil nearer 6.8 / 7

What's going on??? I dunno - totally dif readings when I read with the strips (the 6 result) so who knows it the limes needed...

Ah well - think I'll leav and pray for sun, the only goo thing of the transplant-of-doom is finding that the soil sure as hell ain't waterlogged - still a little damp but not soaking. And the roots that tore off weren't rotten...

Where's the f'in sun!??????

speedracer-x

Coco might have lots of salts in it, some do, did you check yours? Dolomite Lime @ 2TBS per 4 litres of soil.