cheese

ya i was a bit questionable about the temps as well.. i use a 400w hps and have temps higher than that.. unless he is in an outdoor shed or something... keep bending back yuur plants until they are ready to harvest... not much more you can do now..

p.s try and get your wire situation figured out.. it looks pretty unorganized in that room.. but once again, it could be much worse and you could not have any plants at all.. congrats on your first attempt, i think your second one will be much better

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what can i say....i love weed

HowHigh?

WOW , $4000 for clonesc !?! i didn't know they were going for those prices....how many did you buy dude?
yeah, a 1K lamp should do good for your current set-up. and if you should drill holes in your box, dont forget to put a big as catch pan under some bricks or something to catch all the run-off from watering....or else you'll have another problem.

SotallyTober

The setup is prop 215 cali legal out of humboldt county. Light bills are killin me but the club buy's extra. Any excess goes to the club and i get payed. I cut 10 racks of clones and he took them all adding up to what i figure at 5 bucks a clone to be about 4 g's, being that 80% rooted.

So one guy says drill holes, yet another says it's impossible to drain through soil to perlite to red rock. And I still need to know how many plants to take out. Rip out the 4 that are near the middle to give the outside and inside more light, or do i need to take out like half???

ALso will a pot plant survive being ripped out of the box, and transplanted into a 3 gallon, or will it be 2 much damage on the root systems and be pointless. I have a veg up that is 75 degrees constantly and it's empty so I could potentially fit about 10 3 gallon pots in there and then bud that out If i can rip the plants out and they don't die.

Im gonna manicure and drill and recenter lights and post new pics tonight saturday the 2nd of what it looks like now. Please clarify on how many plants i would need to take out, and if those ripped out plants will survive a transplant this late in the cycle.

Im just cutting out the nastiest parts, not removing entire plants until somebody can tell me the right amount of plants. If i cut my crop in half what would I be expecting. And anybody got a guess on probable yeild as of now????

http://www.hempcultivation.com/420/a...d=122375&stc=1


thats the real temp.
Thanks again

penguin

Hi SotallyTober

You don't have to remove any plants, and there's no particular advantage to individual containers over raised beds/compots as long as you are providing enough volme for roots.

As others have mentioned, you were extremely overlit, with about four times as much as you needed. That much light will cause the bleaching you are seeing.

"Optimum" levels are just that - the best it can get. Any additional light beyond "optimum" is at best wasted and at worst (as you are seeing) detrimental. Optimum lighting varies by cultivar and conditions, but a single 1000w light is plenty for your space.

Everything else looks like pretty standard SOG technique. 30 plants in 16 square feet is a little less than 2 plants per square foot, which is actually kind of low density for SOG. Your plants look about the right height.

If your temperatures are really that cold then you could benefit from a space heater. Ideally, you would like temps to stay between 70 and 80F, but 65 to 85F is acceptable. The temp range you reported is enough to seriously inhibit growth. You'll also want to know your relative humidity and try to keep it around 50%, at least until the last 2 weeks before harvest when you can let it get lower than that.

You may or may not have nutrient issues (burn or deficiency). The low temperatures that you have been running ihibit nutrient uptake so that you can get symptoms of deficiency even if there are adequate nutrient levels present in the soil. If you can describe in your feeding program (product names, amounts, frequency) up until now, we can try to help you get that sorted out.

Buzz is right that all of the "drainage improvement" you have added to the bottom of the box may be actually causing drainage problems, and the others were also right when they suggested that you need drainage holes. The best thing to do right now is to drill some drainage holes. In the future, don't use rock/perlite layers in the bottom of the container.

The good news is that you still have a month to go with these clones, and this is the most important time. If you get the lighting, temp, RH, drainange and nutes under reasonable control now, you can still salvage a harvest out of this grow.

If everything goes well from this point forward, you can probably expect 10-12 grams per plant.


penguin

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HowHigh?

dude dont transplant them this far into your flower stage, you'll just make more probs with root damage and plant shock.....just keep your set up as is, clean out the burnt tops of your plants , cut the lights to one 1K lamp, get a handle on your nutes, and find a way to get some drainage to your box....because you will need to flush your crop before harvest or else you'll have some nasty tasting budz with all the nutes and fertz you've been applying...

Captain Bowlpiece

That is unless you want to flush your plants or move them for any reason whatsovever. Plus, the idea that you have too much light once again I suggest is wrong. If your light is the right height from your plants, you only add growth. Again, I refer to JG who has used 3000W to grow 3 plants! You seem to have run into problems because your plants are too hard to work with. I wasn't suggesting to transplant them now, but in the future growing in individual containers is much more manageable.

For now, only remove whatever is absolutely totally dead. Beyond that, I think you have done fairly well all things considered.

My duo centivos.

Cap'n

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penguin

For a single cohort (clones of the same cultivar at the same stage) in SOG, there should be little reason to move plants. Flushing anytime other than the last two weeks, or cases of nute burn, is not a good practice.


Nobody on HC, including JG, is pushing 35000 lm/sf. The rate of photosynthesis is constrained by many factors, including available CO2, available nutrient levels, temp, RH, and genetics. It is certainly possible to provide too much light. In most cases, this is simply wasted electricity, but at extreme levels it can become toxic, as we are seeing in this grow.


penguin

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dumY

Allow me to quote from the official grow guide.

The question is often asked, "can I have TOO MUCH light?". The basic answer is NO. (en-oh)
According to the law of diminishing returns, you could theoretically reach a point when your plants just couldn't absorb any more light but it would be IMPOSSIBLE to have that many lights in your space.
Heat from the lights would become a problem long before you ever reached that point. So use as many lights as you want, just control the heat.

BEAUTIFUL SETUP by the way

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Takin a blunt to the dome
Like a fresh cut clone

penguin

Hi dumY

Unfortunately the grow guide is not correct in this instance. It is true that most growers will experience heat issues before excess lighitng becomes a problem, but with high rates of air exchange and unusually cool temperatures at the intake, it is possible - and is indeed what has happened in SotallyTober's case.

All plants have three critical photosythnetic response points with respect to irradiance levels. These are the light compensation point, the light saturation point, and the point of photoinhibition.

In darkness, photosynthesis does not occur and plant metabolism uses energy derived from respiration, for net energy loss by the plant. As irradiance increases, photosynthesis occurs - but at a rate lower than respriation, and therefore continuing net energy loss.

At a certain critical level of irradiance, called the light compensation point (LCP), the rate of photosynthesis exactly matches the rate of respiration, so there is zero net energy change. LCP varies by cultivar and conditions. As irradiance increases above the LCP, net energy gain occurs as the rate of photosynthesis outpaces the rate of respiration.

However, at a certain point (level of irradiance), increasing irradiance no longer results in an increasing rate of photosynthesis. This is known as the light saturation point (LSP), and varies by cultivar and conditions. This is the "optimum" light level that produces the maximum possible rate of photosynthesis. Beyond this point, any additional irradiance is not used by the plant, but also does not cause any harm to the plant. In the context of a growroom, once the LSP has been reached, any additional wattage is simply wasted (and ends up as heat).

As irradiance continues to increase, eventually it will reach a point where it becomes counterproductive. This is known as the point of photoinhibition. Prolonged/chronic photoinhibition causes degradation (photo-oxidation) of chlorophylls ("leaf bleaching"), and damages protiens involved in photosystem II, further impairing the ability of the plant to use light. This damage is permanent - damaged leaves will not recover if/when irradiance levels are reduced below the point of photoinhibition.

The exact levels of irradiance determining LCP, LSP, and photoinhibition can be directly measured, and have been for many plants. Environmental factors including CO2 concentration, temperature, relative humidty, nutrient availability, water status, and general plant health are known to affect the values. I am not aware of any direct measurements for any variety of cannabis, in any conditions. Generally, sativas can be expected to have higher values for all three points than indicas - sativas require, utilize, and tolerate more light than indicas.

Assuming that all other conditions are optimum, one would not expect any plants to be adapted to use or even tolerate light at irradiance levels beyond what is provided by the sun at noon, at the equator, on the equinox, with 'perfect' atomspheric conditions. This maximum solar irradiance is approximately 1000 w/m^2 (all wavelengths). Horticultural HPS produces approximately 0.35 PAR watts per input watt, and so exceeds maximum solar PAR irradiance by a fair margin at approximately 3000-3500 (input) w/m^2. In the grow room environment, it's always noon on the equinox, and there never any clouds, so at 3500 w/sf the total w/m^2/day far exceeds what outdoor plants get at the equator, and can very reasonably be expected to cause chronic photoinhibition.

There's a pretty broad consensus among experienced growers that, given good environmental conditions, around 55 watts of horticultural HPS per square foot of canopy is "optimum." That's not the same as a direct measurement, but is a pretty good indication that increasing the light does not improve results - i.e., it's a pretty good ballpark for LSP.


penguin

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Beener

Penguin

Excellent paper. You explained that perfectly. I'd give you some rep on this one, but it wants me to spread it around first.

I saved that. I'd like to link it in my signature if you don't mind

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Beener