pooterpatty

Hi guys!

First, I wanted to say what a caluable resource marijuana.com has been for my grow operation. We're starting small, and planning on stayting that way, but your site has been a great help. Thanks for giving us this valuable resource, which no grower should be without.

I'm having a problem with my plants' oldest leaves yellowing, browning, then later falling off completely. Let me describe my situation in a bit more depth, then I can get into the problem a bit more.

I'm not one for fancy grow equipment or high electric bills, so I started out looking for the cheapest possible option to grow indoors. I tried in a closet under flourescents a few times, but it never worked. This last time I've been as successful as I've ever been, and want to see this thing to fruition.

I didn't use the standard advised 'paper towel' method for starting the seeds. I used several new 6' diameter plastic pots filled with normal commercial potting soil, and dropped the seeds directly in. Even with those that didn't grow to maturity, I had about a 98% germination rate (I live in the southeast US).

I'm sitting these plants on the stove, using the standard 60W incandescent at night, and sitting them in a well sunlight window during the day, for as long as the sun is out. Therein lies all the lights these plants will ever get. As I said, I don't want $300 grow lights and ridiculous electric bills, I just want enough herb for me and the wife to smoke. Cheap, easy, and surrepititous are the key words here.

I water the plants every day using a spray bottle filled with either club soda or tap water (I'm on a well, so there's no chemicals that I know of, the water should be pretty pure). If I use tap water, I always make sure to let the water sit for 24 hours before using it.

I've recently read that using club soda is bad because, although it does contain CO2, it also contains salts which are harmful to the plant. However, as soon as I started using the club soda the plants seemed to grow faster than they ever did, with broader leaves even.

The main problem is that the older leaves (first, second, and third sets) seem to be going yellow, eventually turning brown, drying out, and falling off. It looks like this will continue to the vegitative growth on the top of the plant. What can I do to remedy this situation using the supplies I already have? Marijuana is a weed, and I fully believe it has the capability to grow in *spite* of me, without buying expensive equipment and chemicals.

The plants themselves (although I can't be sure of their exact age) are about 6" high. The stems are a bit elongated due to the lack of sufficient light, so I would imagine my plants would equal a plant that is about 4" under optimum lighting conditions.

One other thing I should mention - I use Miracle-Grow dilluted according to the instructions on the box with tap water about twice a week with a spray bottle.. I use sprat bottles exclusively for watering the plants, and want to keep it that way.

I'd include some pictures of my plants (the digital camera is on the fritz at the moment, but I plan on changing that), I'm not sure if that would help.

Please let me know, any suggestions you might have.

We're tired of working with drug dealers, we just want to grow enough for the two of us to smoke. We don't plan on selling or sharing with more than 1 - 2 people at a time.

One other question, and this may sound stupid, I know it varies, but hey, they only stupid question is the one that remains unasked, so here goes: with a normal plant, under my growing conditions, with the equipment I have, assuming normal, healthy, indica or sativa seeds - how long should it take from an ungerminated seed to buds ready to harvest?

The one question I've seen unasked and unanswered in all of the grow forums I've visited is "how long does it take pot to grow, on average?". I think this would help the people who have decided to grow, and would deter those looking for something quick and easy.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

absimiliard

Hopefully you'll find us a friendly bunch.

I'll take a stab at some of your questions.

Regarding light, you probably won't get a great yield with what you're giving them, but what you got you got. That incandescent isn't really helping them at all, but it will keep them in vegetative growth so until you're ready to flower it may have a purpose, but once you want to flower it's gonna have to go. Recall that flowering is induced by changing your light regimen to 12 hours a day or less of light, also recall that you have to be very strict about no light during your dark period.

Regarding fertilizer: You should be okay using a spray bottle, but Miracle Grow ain't the best. It tends to cause salt build-up and magnesium deficiency. It sounds like you may be losing those lower leaves due to a Nitrogen deficiency, getting a different fert that is high in N should help.

Don't know anything about club soda. Sorry.

Time to bud. Hmmm. Varies quite a bit from plant to plant. Universally expect to spend 6-8 weeks in your initial vegetative growth with ideal conditions. Then figure another 6-10 weeks for flowering an indica and 8-14 weeks for a sativa. Flowering time varies wildly with your strain so there's no solid guide. All in all I'd say your minimum time to harvest from seed is like 12 weeks and more realistically it will be around 16 weeks and it could be as long as 22 weeks. All those are estimates under good conditions, anything less can lengthen those guesses.

Sorry that's such an inexact estimate, just the way the herb is.

__________________
Cool sigs are for cool people. I'm just a llama.
-Absimiliard

pooterpatty

Thanks for the reply.

I know the incandescent is helping much, but it's at least some kinda light, when there's no sunlight anyway. I've tried supplementing with 40W cool white flourescents (all that's available here), but it seemed to kill off the plants faster than anything else.

I realize my question about time from seed to smokeable bud was a little off-center, but I just wanted a general idea, and I think I have one now. I know there are no hard and fast rules, and it varies depending on what type of plant you're growing - I just wanted a generic baseline to go from.

I've read in several books that the problem I'm experiencing is caused by nutrient defficiency, but each place I look names a lack of a different nutrient as the culprit.

I guess now I should be looking for a fert to introduce to the plants gradually that has a good amount of N. What's a good rating to look for? A general guideline for how fast or slow I should intoduce the fert?

I plan on experimenting with these plants, seeing what works best, but the general guidelines I've gathered from reading different posts on this board and others are honestly what have allowed me to get as far as I have.

You've been a real friendly bunch so far (what group of stoners wouldn't be?), and I hope to keep you updated on the progress of my babies, and hopefully some newer growers can learn from my mistakes with their own crops.

Thanks again for the help - I plan on taking your advice, and will keep you posted.

absimiliard

'ey Patty!

As far a good fertilizer goes, during vegetative growth you'd like to get something high in Nitrogen, say a ratio of 2-1-1, 3-1-1 or even 4-1-1, during flowering that'll change to something higher in P so look for something like 1-3-1 or 1-4-1. I know it's a pain to have to use different fertilizers, but hey, what the plants want, they want.

__________________
Cool sigs are for cool people. I'm just a llama.
-Absimiliard

Chaos

What kind of fertilizer do you suggest?

__________________
Why take life seriously? Nobody ever gets through it alive.

hoover

My two cents for what theyre worth,

Get a small HPS, cheap 2nd hand or new, lots of recommendations for home security lights from posters stateside.

The power cost isnt much, if you pay attn elsewhere it can be almost not noticible

Make a growbox if you dont have a closet- furniture boxes are commonly listed as a good choice

Go silly

Ive found the windowsill method will work, will bud etc BUT
will give you the ****s moving in out etc, ppl seeing in the window, bugs, accidents, cloudy weeks etc

outcome=knowledge+effort cubed

gotta lurve your own homegrown

__________________
happy hoovering

TonDerudesKa

Welcome to HC.Com

Look for the obvious first....you said you had 6 inch pots. What you are describing is exactly what happens when the plant is root bound. I would be willing to bet that is part of your problem, if not the main problem. Try checking the roots.....you will prob. need to tranplant.

Cy

pooterpatty

thanks for the suggestions...

I went out today and bought a box of dried blood, which seems like the best source of nitrogen of anything I could find. It's
12-0-0, so it's a little higher than you recommended it need be. I dilluted the hell out of it, so we'll see what happens.

I'm looking for 12-14" plants at harvest...is this too much to ask from a pot that's 6-8" tall?

If the plants were root-bound, would this problem not come on gradually as the roots bind up, or would it be sudden? You suggested checking the roots. I know this seems like a stupid question, but how would I go about that without uprooting the entire plant? In the shape they're in now, I doubt they would survive a transplant.

I'll be photographing the babies within the next few days, and will post the results here, so maybe that will give you a better idea.

Thanks for all the help so far, I really appreciate it!

smokinrav

1- Unless aggressivly pruned and trained, its doubtful you will end up with a 14" fully mature MJ plant. Assume a doubleing in height (at least!)during flowering, so your already at 16".

2- the decay in the plants appearance will be fairly sudden. Noticable differences daily in the plants coloring and the decay is moving up the stem

3- t-plant or they may die, thats the bottom line. as long as your still giving them more than 18 hours light, theyre still in vegetative growth and can expand their root system, so its not too late as long as the binding isnt too bad. Take a look at the drain holes. If you can see many root ends poking out of the medium, its t-plant time. A six inch tall container wont carry you much further, for sure.

Also this:
>>I'm sitting these plants on the stove, using the standard 60W incandescent at night <<

This wont be very beneficial to the plant. Try to use it as little as possible to prevent stretching. Thats where the distance between nodes increases due to the plant trying to get to the light. Try to leave it under the incan only till 16-18 hours of daylight has been hit. You will keep it in veg and still use only the minimum incan light.

You might want to look at changing your watering habits. Ive found that MJ loves a radical change in its medium moisture. ie, going from an extrememly wet medium to an extremely dry one. IOW throughly saturate the medium and them wait until its completely dry before watering again( I never foliar feed). My 3 gallon planters drank 1 gallon at a time (equal V/P/P)and would last 7-14 days before needing more. I actually like to wait till the leaves are drooping from thirst. Sounds like torture and you must excercise great patience and keep a close eye on them, but the reults are wonderful

Good luck, sorry for the length

Smokin

pooterpatty

Just wanted to update you on my progress.

On your advice, I've transplanted one of the plants to a larger plastic container, and although there is no new growth, that seems to be the extent of the shock the plant is experiencing.

I'm amazed at this because I accidentally disturbed the root ball when transplanting. Fortunately, the plants haven't seemed to have suffered any ill effects.

I have 2 plants, one that I've transplanted to a larger container, and the other I've left in the smaller one (for scientific purposes).

I made sure both had a good supply of N by mixing dried blood with the soil (which is 12-0-0). To date, some of the leaves are still yellow at the tips, but it doesn't seem to be spreading anymore. Those leaves may not heal completely, but the effect doesn't seem to be moving up the plant like it was a few days ago. In light of this, I think the suggestion about supplying the plants with more nitrogen seems to have worked!

My babies might just survive after all! Hooray!

Thanks to all for the great advice, you may have saved my crop!

Moreover, I think the suggestion about starving the plant for water is risky, but I imagine it would be effective by making the plant stronger, as it has to endure very wet periods and very dry periods. It would be my guest that doing this would make the plant more resilient to things like nutrient defficiencies and pests. What do you think?

I'll keep you updated on my progress, and will include some pictures soon.