CLONING MADE EASY, a pictorial guide. - Page 17

mayan · 02-16-2009, 02:25 PM

Hello, Sensei of Clone! I realize that the following should go into the "Cloning Made Ridiculously Complicated" thread so may be a bit off topic...BUT, I was wondering yr take on feeding/watering before taking the clones I have read elsewhere that cutting back the nitrogen or even switching over to a "bloom" formula will help rooting. In other words, although it seems slightly counterintuitive to me, there are those that suggest that nitrogen based "grow" formulas are not as suitable as "bloom" formulas which have more phosphate because the phosphate will help to foster root growth more than the nitrogen which foster leaf/stem growth.

I was also wondering about the practice of clipping the tips of the remaining fan leaf to cut down on moisture output or systemic water needs of the plant. I have seen this in a number of threads.

I would guess that either of these practices are unnecessary. I was, however, wondering whether you have any experience and, if so, whether you thought they made an appreciable difference. Again, I know that this is about simplicity and I'm all for that so I don't want to go too far afield. I had just never thought about either of these two approaches.

Thanks!!

**Lou Cypher** · 02-16-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayan

I was wondering yr take on feeding/watering before taking the clones I have read elsewhere that cutting back the nitrogen or even switching over to a "bloom" formula will help rooting.

mayan, I'll brake this to three different posts cause its going to be a long reading.

Mother plants require very small amounts of nutes to stay green and produce healthy clones.
Usually one feeding every four waterings (about once a month).

As I mention in earlier posts, I let the mother plants get very dry before I take clones, and I feed them right after I de-clone them cause thats when they need the nutes the most to build new tissue.

The clones have small amounts of nute in them when they get cut, I'll say enough for 10 days, if they don't root by then, they will start showing N deficiency, yellowing and necrosis.

I do not agree though to give any kind of nutes to a clone before it has roots, it wont absorb anything from the medium, it has no roots, thus salt build up and PH fluctuations during veg time.

So the answer to you Q will be:
Take clones from a thirsty mom and no nutes until the clone has roots.
First feeding of nutes upon first transplant.

cont......

**Lou Cypher** · 02-16-2009, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayan

I was also wondering about the practice of clipping the tips of the remaining fan leaf to cut down on moisture output or systemic water needs of the plant.

Clipping the leaves is beneficial if you have clones that take more than two weeks to root or a small dome that causes that.
Size of the dome is very crucial, cause the more RH you can store in a tub the longer the clone will stay green.

A lots of people clone a dozen cuttings in a one cubic foot tub.
Not enough air to build sufficient amount of humidity to keep the cuttings hydrated.

In my most recent experiments with domes, I came to believe that for every 10 cuttings I need 1 f3 of tub space.
Thats how I came to use the tub you see as my cloning box.
24 clones x 2.5 f3 of space.

Enough RH that I don't have to open the top more often than 48 hrs.
That gives plenty of time for the water in the soil to start evaporating and create big amounts of RH.

The longer the clones stay in sealed, high RH environment the faster they will root, there is no demand from the leaves to look for water from bellow so the stem concentrates all efforts to build roots.

When a clone deplete all N cause of a prolong rooting and start yellowing, root growth stops completely.
This clone wont feel the need to grow roots until it gets some green leaves, and it wont get any leaves with no roots, so it will start dying.

The answer to this Q will be:
If you have the right dome and you are able to keep temp/RH steady for one week, no need to clip your clones.

cont......

**Lou Cypher** · 02-16-2009, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayan

I know that this is about simplicity and I'm all for that so I don't want to go too far afield.

mayan, after trial and error, trying different domes, keeping notes on humidity levels, looking for ways to find the right temps etc. I realize what was the "niche" in cloning.

RH:

Your cuttings are in the dome, and soil is moist.
Now if you warm up the bottom of the tub, the water in the soil starts to evaporate mixing with couple f3 of air, creating humidity.
If there is a dome, evaporation gets trapped in the tub.

Keep the RH high for 48 hrs with out opening the tub and keeping them away from direct light, and you'll get 100% cloning success, every time all the time.

mayan · 02-17-2009, 04:13 PM

Hey, Lou Cypher...thanks so much for the VERY generous explanations. What a wonderful collection of knowledge and experience.

The biggest issue I have is trying to "convert" the wisdom to a media other than soil. In my case, at this moment, the Hempy experience. Still, there is no reason why I can't follow the spirit of the the principles, if not the actual letter of your method..

As it stands, I took clones yesterday and they have been sitting in a tub, much like yours, for 24 hours. I'm not heavily attached to the outcome. There were divergences...Some major. For instance, I'm using Rapid Rooters, not solo cups of soil. I anticipate moving them into miniHempys if they do well. Some of the clones were quite small...they each had a trimmed node though.

For the most part, I didn't use a gel or powder although I did soak the plugs in ph'd water that had been lightly perfumed with Liquid Karma. I used Olivia's gel on just a very few. If I took three clones, for instance, I might have dipped the third clone in gel just for comparisons sake.

Finally, the only available space for growing the clones is in the basement near the Crypt. It gets pretty cool down there so I am using a propagation pad. I'm a little concerned that your method may have "more" water in play for evaporation...your cups are much larger than the plugs. As there is a bunch of room left on the floor of the tub (I took about 30 or so clones), I'm wondering about maybe putting a small bowl of water in the tub...more H20 for evaporation. If I do so, however, it won't be until the 48 hour "quarantine" period is over.

If they don't do well, I still have the donor plants to either flower or take more clones from. Cloning seems to be the way to go, however, and it's about time I learned how to do it so I could get good at it. So..it's all good, eh?

Again, my friend...thanks!!! I'll let you know how my divergences go and where my experiments take me and my plants..

**Lou Cypher** · 02-17-2009, 04:58 PM

mayan, looking forward to see the results my friend.

No matter what medium you're using the principals are the same.
RH will be enough in the tub, you'll be surprised how much water those little plugs can hold.
Keep the tub sealed for the first 48 hrs and keep the bottom warm.

Happy cloning.

mayan · 02-17-2009, 05:02 PM

I just peaked in at the little babies. No...didn't open the lid. There are tiny little bubbles o' H2O all over the tub, suggesting to me that RH must be pretty good and high and the little plantlets are as green as...um...er...I don't know. They are pretty damn green! Donors have been switched to 12/12. Let the games begin!. (Yes...you are right about the plugs...they do hold ALOT of water - even when squeezed.)

**Lou Cypher** · 02-17-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayan

I just peaked in at the little babies. No...didn't open the lid. There are tiny little bubbles o' H2O all over the tub, suggesting to me that RH must be pretty good and high

First step is done, you have build high enough RH for them to stay green.
Now if you can overcome the urge to open the tub, everything should go as planned.

mayan · 02-17-2009, 05:28 PM

Yes! I have absolutely no desire to open the tub and my will power - which is SO bad in other departments - is fully intact. I will be strong!

I do have a question, however. When you open the tub the following day(s) for the 5 minutes, it seems that you do not mist at that point...rather, you let the humidity come from the moisture in the plugs. Do I have that right? Thanks!

**Lou Cypher** · 02-17-2009, 05:39 PM

mayan, correct.
The first time you open the tub for few min's, fresh air that enters the tub and the remaining water in the plugs will create RH again and at around 12 hrs later (yes, it takes that long) you'll see droplets again on the walls of the tub.

In case you don't, do not mist them, rather put a small cup of water in the tub, but only if there is no visible humidity build up in the tub.
You don't want "solid" water evaporation in there, you can rot your clones stems.

Keep the updates coming.

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