pearl

I was reading about cloning and I couldn't quite see the answer about as you clone from a clone and keep going does it keep getting weaker and weaker.
I'm not talking about taking a clone from a mother and later taking another one from the same mother.
I'm talking about taking a clone from a mother and then taking a clone from the new clone and so on.

I've heard different things so I thought I would put this out there and wait.[img]images/smilies/confused3.gif[/img]

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mellowbifta

Nope it will not get weaker with cloning but as I understand it it will diminish genetics if you flower & re-veg & then take clones.

so if you take cuttings from a mother plant/plants you will reproduce the same genitics as the mother.

But if you re-veg & then flower you have a photocopy of the original but as you photocopy by reveging & flowering the copy gets weaker

MB

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Pot-Ted

start losing potentcy on cloning from clones

grass_hopper

I'd like to see some backup for this. I've taken revegged clones and they were the bushiest, strongest plants I've ever grown - stronger than the mothers.

Eventually, a clone-of-a-clone-of-a-clone x 50+ generations will start to develop mutations from a process called senesence. You'd have to grow a boat-load of generations of plants in order to run into problems. The plant's cells aren't meant to divide that many times, which could slow the growth process or decrease resistence to diseases, etc.

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El1t3dirk

also curious a have a clone from a mother that has been revegged
(in flowering right now)
DiRk

draconis

Here is one ponder What if the doner never sees dark aka No Re-Veg.

To explain:
My current project is my 3rd grow and is all about clones.

Real quick rundown is 4x2x4 Stealth Cab with 1000w hps
Grow medium is a GH Babybloomer E&F system w/10x4" pots modded with external Res for easier changes.
Mama is in her own Cab and sits in a Bubbler Bucket under a 100w HPS

Stage 1:
I was given two cuttings from a Sunflower grown from seed. Cuttings were taken during veg with lights on 24x7. Cuttings were tended while original was flowered and determined to be female. Interestingly enough the cuttings also showed signs of sexing at exact same time.

So, I have two clones to start me off... One went into the Cab and hit 12/12, the other was dubbed MAMA, and went in her own Cab and was on 24x7.

Stage 2:
Two weeks later the cuttings began, I took a total of 17 cuttings from MAMA over a two week period. All clones are being rooted under CF in Peat Pellets.


Stage 3:
Over the next two weeks 10 rooted clones were gradualy added to my cab whilst the original sister matured nicely. *(Ill try to post some shots. Also 7 remaining went to my original doner friend.)


Now since we both filled our boxes, the original MAMA was no longer needed, so the last clone to be taken was the main top (beheaded) as indicated by the tape.

Of course since obsolete, MAMA was then, well... terminated and Top is being rooted.


Stage 4:
Original sister was harvested yesterday after 46days in the box.

I estimate she weights over a Lb wet, and probably will eek out ~4o, she also has got the largest cola I've seen yet.


Finaly Stage 5 or simply known as Repeat:
The new top clone from the old MAMA is now dubbed "New MAMA", and now sits in her old spot in the bubbler, again under the 100w on 24x7.

Meanwhile my 10 clones are maturing nicely under the 1000w 12/12. All staggered, which begins the perpetual SoG machine.


So in this example we really didnt require re-Vegging at all, but really its just a continuance of the original cutting accomplished by beheading...

Basicly:
Batch One is clones from the doner clone
Batch Two will be clones from the clone (hat) of the doner clone

So the question is will batch 2 be less potent than batch 1
I will find out, and if this thread is still open I'll post the result.


P.S.
1) is this post too long to be a reply, or does this need to be a journal?

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Quest4high

Over time there will be subtle differences that develop. I have seen many a debate on this topic (do a search and you will find several threads) but it (genetic drift) does occur. You may or may not be able to physically see any difference or notice any potency change, it may be a simpler genetic "drop" but genetic drift is one drawback of cloning clones indefinitely. I hardly doubt the average grower would ever run that many generations out but to be safe I keep my mother constant by bonsai....the same will work in hydro also. Unless you plan on taking 40-50 generation sets of clones(15+/- years with 3 grows per year), genetic drift should not show noticeable effects for many years.

Good looking budshots....talk about a bud on a stick!

Quest

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Agent 86, a great bubbler bucket thread!
Buckethead thread...tooo funny.

draconis

Happy to report no loss of potency in the 2nd batch as expected.
Here is a shot of them curing in glass

Next batch will sadly be the last for the Sunflower... as my bro just got in some new genetics to try... Maybe I'll try a GJ this time.

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cannablissUK

If your producing colas like that i think you should make a GJ to help other users. If not, then to show off

CBUK

penguin

I ran a perpetual SOG on a weekly harvest rotation with high clone demand for a long time. I used both low-cycle (mother plants) and high-cycle (clones of clones) propogation.

I noticed loss of vigor in high-cycle cultivars after ~18 cycles (approximately 2 years), whereas the low-cycle cultivars remained vigorous for > 5 years. I confirmed this by propigating the same cutltivar by both methods in parallel.

Telomere depletion is the limiting factor on the total number of cell divisions for a cultivar, and it should be the same for both mothers and clones of clones.

Now I use a few cycles while I'm screening a cultivar but once it's a keeper, I use mothers that have never seen 12/12.


penguin

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