Harmless User

Originally posted under "State Laws Online", but no response there.

I’m curious about the procedure to arrest someone for growing in CA (south). No doubt a search warrant would be involved. Per the 4th amendment it must state 1) what is to be searched, 2) what they are looking for. How far can this go? If the answer to 1) is “all property, cars, structures, furniture”, etc. and the answer to 2) is “paraphernalia, cultivation equipment, records”, etc. then I could end up with police searching through my wife’s underwear drawer looking for seeds, right? They could get the computer nerd cops to dissect my PC and read my deleted email that is still fragmented on my drive, right? They could search every file, every box, every drawer in every cabinet in the house. Is it likely for them to spend the time/effort to do these things? Do they destroy a person’s house looking for evidence? They could make a good mess, I'm sure. If they do damage, who pays?

How do police know if someone is growing for personal use or sale? Do they need to find transaction records to prove it’s a commercial operation? Is one assumed a personal user until the search turns up such records or other evidence of a commercial operation? I know multiple storage containers is a mistake. Are there any other tell-tale signs of a commercial operation that should be avoided?

And when do the police do the raid? Is it 4AM with jack-booted thugs (sorry, couldn’t resist) coming in every window with automatic weapons drawn? Or would a small operation get one police car and two friendly fellas with a knock on the door late Saturday morning, “Sorry to bother you sir, but we have a search warrant here…” After all, why would the police take any chances? They don’t know who’s inside and what they are armed with? In the first case I’d think I was being robbed and my family was in mortal danger.

And who gets arrested? All adults in the house? The thought of my wife in handcuffs, crying “I told you to get rid of those plants!” and my kids screaming as they are lead to the police car for their trip to a foster home sends shivers through me.

And what about seizure? What can be seized? What can’t?

Is this what’s done or do I just have an active imagination? And who’s to blame? Me for being a middle aged, middle class toker? The police for doing their impossible job? The law for trying to save us from ourselves? The producers of “Reefer Madness”? (This is rhetorical, of course.)

I know I’m asking a lot of questions, but I’m starting to think this growing thing is too risky.

HydroGrower

GW is much better suited to answer this and I am sure he will when he sees it. But...the terms deciding wether you are growing for personal use or for distribution is generally a state-to-state law and is determined by the number of plants you are growing.

For more info on individual state laws regarding possesion or cultivation please check out the state laws link on the front page of marijuana.com

HG

Ganja Warrior

Generally, the search warrant must describe the place to be searched in particularity. that is the test is could a person who had no previous knowledge of where the place to be searched. Then we must describe all of the places to be searched, and these include any place that can reasonably contain the items we are looking for. In cultivataion cases, we look for pot, including growing, harvested, processed, and seeds, we look for evidence of cultivation such as growing impliments, which could include common gardening tools, fertilizers, potting soil, etc., we look for evidence of who has control of the premesis being searched, called indicia, that includes delivered mail, notes, personal phone books, photograph albumns, etc., we look for evidence of cultivation/possession for sales, including pay and owe sheets, etc., we look for proceeds from the sales of pot including bank statements, safety deposit box keys, investment account statements, real property, conveyances, etc.

We ask to search all structures, outbuildings, rooms, attics, garages, etc., computers, and computer components, and all vehicles at the premesis or that arrive during the search, all persons present at the scene and that arrive during the search, and to answer the phone without revealing our identities and record the contents of the conversation if it pertains to illegal activity.

Our affidavits are are usually fairly lengthly as we must justify why we want to look for the things in those places.

Generally the search warrant must be served between 7 AM and 10 PM unless we get it endorsed for night service.

We do not "destroy" houses during the search, and in fact usually take before and after photos to show the condition of the house before and after our search.

How the search gets served depends ont he location and the information the officers have. Some jurisdictions require ALL drug s/w's to get served by the SWAT Team. Others leave it up to the guys who are investigating the crime to make the call.

As Hydro pointed out, in most jurisdictions, especially in CA, the determininig factor is the number of plants. Without a 215 prescription, any cultivation is a felony, although it is rarely charged for small number of plants, with no other factors such as guns, boody trap, assaults on officers, etc.

Some other thing that are looked at to "determine" possession for sales, is packaging (having small, equal, amounts of pot in seperate baggies, any records of sales or of "giving" it to friends or others, correspondance about using the "extra money" for things like vacations, Christmas, etc.

Usually, every adult that resides in the place will be arrested. However, in most cases the person who takes responsiblity for the grow, usually the "man of the house," will be booked if that is warranted. Sometimes, a citation type of disposition is used if it is warranted, and in rare cases, no one goes to jail and the matter is referred to the DA for determination.

Keep in mind, a search warrant is very invasive, and we often find or see things that have no bearing on the crime under investigation but that can be very embarassing for the citizen.

If you are going to grow pot, know that it is still a crime, limit you exposure by keeping the grow SECERT and don't sell or give any to anyone to take away from your house. If friends want some, smoke it with them right there. Don't make references in letters about "extra money" or anything like that. If you have different varieties of pot stored seperately, clearly label it as such, such as "Northern Lights" "oregon honey" etc., so that should you get raided, the courts and juries can clearly see that you had the pot seperated not for sales but to keep the seperate varieties apart.

Generally, if you are a small, personal use grower, and there is no other reason the cops would be wanting to get you, and you keep your acitvites low key, you shouldn't have problems. GW

[This message has been edited by Ganja Warrior (edited August 08, 2000).]

kushBhydro

Generally, if you are a small, personal use grower, nad there is no other reason the cops would be wanting to get you, and you keep your acitvites low key, you shouldn't have problems. GW[/b][/quote]


For the record, you're an officer of the law correct? How low, is low key? Will posting the progress of my indoor closet on this website give people like, you (no offense), reason enough to investigate further into the location of my grow for a possible arrest? I dont want the sharing of my grow experience to get me in trouble with the law. I grow for personal use, but i smoke ALOT, and find i have to grow alot of plants indoors to suit myself (and my stepfather on the side) ... Is my posting on this site traceable? Do YOU trace? If so, what is it you trace? picture links? I'd really love to post the progress of my hydroculture without running the risk, feel me? Any info on this subject would be appreciated..

-kush

420Forever

GanjaWarrior, its always great to read your posts

Kush, I think the only thing that can be obtained from your posts is your email address (by the administrators), and your IP if IP logging is on in which case you it would appear at the bottom of your posts in the corner (only by hosts and administrators)...and generally it wouldn't be shared...at least I think, I was kinda wondering the same thing about traceability (the admins would know for sure. HydroGrower?? ).

HydroGrower

Without some extreme help from an Administrator on this site (Which would NEVER happen )... you are pretty safe here. And IP logging is only used to ban people who are a threat to your security or who are serious offenders of website policy. So don't anyone freak out of it ever gets turned on

HG

Ganja Warrior

Kush, "Low key" means not letting everyone know your business, and not being "up fornt" politically, for anything. Posting your stuff to this site does not expose you to any attention unless you start bragging about your multi-thousand plant commercial grow. I don't even attempt to trace anything from this site. I surf this site to keep up on the latest techniques. If you grow for personal use, and you stay low key, you'll be alright. GW

Larz

What about writing to congresspeople? Does that generally arouse suspicion? I get a little worried about getting raided based on a letter to a conservative congressman. I figure as long as I'm not public, I should be fine though.

Ganja Warrior

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, helvetica, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Larz:
What about writing to congresspeople? Does that generally arouse suspicion? I get a little worried about getting raided based on a letter to a conservative congressman. I figure as long as I'm not public, I should be fine though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Larz, Writing to your congressperson does not necessarily raise your profile on the radar screen. However, people who become public advocates, write MANY letters to governmental officials, etc, increase their risk of becoming one of those "special persons" that law enforcement will invest the time and energy to sit on small grows, or take actions they would not normally do.

If you're a grower, and don't live in a state that allows medicinal marijuana, or who does not have a valid perscription, you raise the stakes by becoming a 'visible' advocate. There are many books that outline setting up relatively secure mail drops, etc. Research those if you feel "compelled" to make written statements in support of pot.

Ganja Warrior

Harmless User,

I realized I didn't address what could be, or usually is, seized.

Generally, things to be seized must fall into one of several categories; 1) Evidence of a crime; 2)things possessed illegally (contraband and fruits of the crime); 3)items that identify the persons in control of a premises (indicia); 4) things that are the tools of the crime; 5) proceeds from criminal activity; 6) and things that are being hidden from law enforcement that meet one of the other categories.

Evidence can be anything that the officer can show by his training and experience will have so value to show that a particular crime was committed and/or that a specific person comitted the crime.

Contraband and fruits of the crime are self explanitory.

Indicia is anything that can show who was in control of the place searched our where the crime was committed.

Tools of the crime can be things that in and of themselves are not illegal in nature, but which are possessed to facilitate a crime.

Proceeds of the crime can be anything of value. Generally, large sums of cash found at the scene are automatically seized. Other "high dollar value" items such as jewelry, collectibles, autos, and property are investigated and seized if the owner can not account for the value.

If you are filing taxes on $30,000 a year, but are driving a brand new, completely paid for $80,000 Corvette, and can't explain the wealth through an insurance settlement, inheritance, etc., its gonna go bye-bye.

Unless the cops have done a thorough investigation prior to the search warrant, only those items that are "liquid" such a cash, jewelry, collectibles, etc., will be seized. The other items will be noted and investigated. Seizure warrants will be coming shortly after the s/w.

Once an item is seized, it is held until it is no longer needed for evidence. Items not contraband or illegal to possess must be returned. Proceeds will be forfeited, after a hearing, unless the citizen can account for them from a legitimate source.