Ganja Lawyer

I. Searches of homes: Probable Cause Requirement

As I have stated on several threads, LEO needs "Probable Cause" (Hereafter p/c) in order to get a search warrant for a house. But what exactly does that mean and what is the scope of probable cause?

Unfortunately, that is far beyond the scope of this thread as you would need classes in Constitutional Law and Criminal Procedure to fully understand the topic.

I will try to give a summary in a few paragraphs: In brief, Probable Cause means it is more likely than not (i.e. "probable) that:

1. THIS Defendant committed the crime and
2. THIS person/house etc that you are searching is the
Defendant or was under his control.

SMELL: In most States, even the smell of marijuana does not provide p/c to search a home- or even a CAR in some States! Check with you friendly neigborhood cirminal lawyer on this one.

BUDS AND/OR STEMS: Most certainly! AND REMEMBER, THEY CAN SEARCH YOUR GARBAGE WITHOUT A WARRANT AND WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE. IF THEY FIND STEMS OR SEEDS THEN

INFORMANTS TIP: Yep But it must be a "reliable informant" with specific knowledge. And yes, pissed off girlfriends count- they are the number one lead for LEO.

What about getting into the house without probable cause and/or a search warrant?


II. Getting around probable cause:

Cops have all kinds of tricks to get around the warrant requirement:

1)Firemen lawfully in the house means

2) Medical emergencies means

These first 2 fall under the "Exigent Circumstances" exception to the search warrant requirement. INOW: IF THERE ARE SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES, THE PO CAN ENTER W/O A WARRANT.

This was recently dealt a blow by the U.S. District Court for Tenessee.

Evidence found by Police when they accompanied defendant's landlord into a leased house to "protect" the landlord because landlord found a water leak and was worried about carpet damage WAS SUPRESSED..

The leak was from a hydroponics marijuana grow op- and does anybody think the po were there to serve and protect? They were watching the op and looking for an excuse to get in the house!!!!

The Court said to do a warrantless search:

1. Time must be of the essence
2. Risk of danger to persons

Since neither were present, CASE DISMISSED.

For a more in depth analysis see Boboty's link

In This Thread

Night Shadow

I have a question. As I am sure most know it is quite easy for the police to search your car. I have heard that if you have your trunk and glovebox locked that they need a warrant to open the glove box and trunk.....however they can call a K-9 unit in to smell around. I live in such a small town though I don't even believe we have K-9 as I have never seen one. Is this true?

Ganja Lawyer

[/quote]it is quite easy for the police to search your car. I have heard that if you have your trunk and glovebox locked that they need a warrant to open the glove box and trunk[quote]

It IS quite easy for the po to search your car but the question is not quite right. The 4th Amendment protects our "reasonable expectation of privacy."

So: Extra protections for your house, fewer protections for your car (less of an expectation of privacy) MORE protections if items are in the trunk (more of an expectation of privacy) and NO protections for your curb side garbage (No expectation of privacy in your trash- so throwing seeds, stems away = ).

In a car (after a valid traffic stop) the Po can look Anywhere they want where a weapon could be hidden and was accessible to the driver or passengers. Locked glove box might work.

Otherwise Glove Box is just part of the car- where a weapon is easily accessible! If the items you want to protect are in the glove box then

Ganja Lawyer

From a P.M:

[quote] What if they check your credit card records or paypal
records and see some suspicious purchases, what can they do with that?
Especially now that they do not have to get a warrent to investigate any of your financial records, it seems to have placed some of us in a more vulnerable position. [quote]


Answer: What is "suspicious?" The purchase of LEGAL items does NOT give them probable cause to do anything.

Further, you are WRONG in thinking they don't need a warrant to look at your financial records. They need a warrant (and probable cause) to even look at your financial records (see the recent flap over Rush Limbaughs medical records to give an idea how difficult it is for the PO..

The exception is The Patriot Act which requires that the "Target" be an 'Enemy Agent" or an "Agent of a Foreign Power" and is discussed:

Here


Although the bar for granting such a warrant may be lower than granting a full search of a house, since a "suspicious purchase" of a legal item (read lights, nutrients, etc) doesn't give them p/c to do anything, why would they bother?

If they get the goods on you, they won't bother looking at your financial records, they will get a search warrant, kick open your door, slap your girlfriend, beat the hell out of you, and then haul you off to jail.

However, simple security rules require that no suspicious purchases be made on credit cards anyway- just to be triple safe.

choader

I just read where a man in AZ was busted with a home grow operation. They found 70 plants. It was stated that a neighbor saw him carrying soil up to the roof/attic. Not sure how that is PC.

They added that the man had been previously busted (in AZ) with a home grow operation and had also been caught with 10lbs in Missouri on another occasion.

Could you walk thru how PC is established in this case? Enough to get a warrant apparently.

Thanks.

Choader

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Ganja Lawyer

"saw him carrying soil up to the roof/attic. Not sure how that is PC. They added that the man had been previously busted (in AZ) with a home grow operation and had also been caught with 10lbs in Missouri on another occasion."

LOL, this could be a law exam hypothetical.

Hmm, someone carrying potting soil up to there attic.? Is that enough?

Is it more likely than not that someone carrying potting soil to there attic would be growing something up there. Is it enough? Maybe, but a Judge would probably want more.

So we report the guy is a 2 time loser, with experience running a grow op, who is probably still on probation, and obviously already being watched by the Po, and is seen carrying potting soil to his attic....)

Stil a close call. IF I were the judge, I would turn it down.

His problem- I wasn't.

G33k$m0k3r420

This forum thread needs a bump to stay at the top.

Also, after reading this, I'm NOT throwing my seeds/stems in the garbage.

(I'm saving my stems anyway for pot tea, but it's a good fact to know)

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bellsprout

You know, I havent had my car searched by a po even though when I was pulled over, smoke was coming out of the windows before I stoped.. I assume it takes a 28.5g laying around in your car to be p/c around here

Sprout_

MisterGoat

ok a couple quickies...

the trash thing--so hypothetically, i could take all my trim leaves and other plant garbage and toss it in my neighbors trash...then if the police were to snoop in their trash they could search their house--right?? and someone could do the same to me, right?? kinda sketchy...if the police came to my door saying they found plant matter in my trash, i'd be inclined to tell them that someone must have done that to me to frame me--seems a little sketchy to merit pc...


and the driving/searching you car biz (since i'm taking a road trip this weekend)...let's say i'm smoking a joint, following all traffic laws, etc. and i suddenly get pulled over--i am able to discard the joint, but i know it reeks like weed in the car and i probably look fairly stoned--cop can't search me? what if it turns out that he pulled me over for speeding? expired plates? wrong plates on the car?? what wouldgive him pc to search the car? i'll check the state-by-state laws here, but i'd like to hear it from your pov...

thanks!!
goat

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grow 2.1...nirvana ice continued...back to the dirt...7oz

Ganja Lawyer

Yep. And I commend you. Thinking like a lawyer. Somebody COULD set you up and maybe that trash WASN"T yours. Except it is STILL more likely than not that it was.

Thus, probable (more likely than not) cause exists - search warrant =

Again, yep. COP CAN SEARCH CAR (in most States) if he smells weed. Doesn't matter WHY he pulled you over. An "Articulable Suspicion" is all that is required. (He approached the center line twice MAY be enough ) Then when he smells the weed, its

Except in your case, since you got rid of the jiblet, unless he can get you for use (very unlikely without evidence ) or operating under the influence- ditto then