Curious_Head

Hi. First post here and I'd like to ask you a question, Ganja Warrior. Hope I'm posting this in the correct location, or in one that you will see. Actually, I have a TON of questions regarding your surveillance experience/stories, etc. I hope you can find the time to answer, whenever that may be. Do you have a computer with internet on your moonlighting job? (not that you would use work time to play on the i-net...although I suppose it is work-related, maybe just not related to your 2nd job

You mentioned in a previous post about doing surveillance at times on outdoor grows (such as the one where you observed a hunter who later returned to rip off a crop). I'm fascinated by the CAMP surveillance techniques (or whatever LEO's do it).

When you set up to observe a site, do you usually observe from a distance with binoculars, etc? When and if you do set up a camera, how effective is that? Is this only to establish a pattern or to actually establish an identity which you can later match to the person when they visit again? I can't believe people don't hear the cameras going off. Does this surprise you? You must camouflage them pretty well or something? Have you ever lost a camera to discovery? Have you ever had someone leave a message for you, after realizing you'd been there? That'd be interesting as hell to know. Hopefully you've never encountered a trap set once they discovered you'd been there.

Are you usually up and close, waiting to ambush? Do LEO's usually wait for something that would tie the visitor to the grow such as tending it somehow before pouncing? Or do they pounce right away on the first person to stumble into the grow area (especially if it's a difficult/not-visited area?) Do you use camouflage, or just kind of hang out, finding that most people will just stumble into you?

Have you ever been waiting for people (or heard of this happening to other LEO's) and then the "growers" realized something was up and just turned around and left? Would you go after someone that did this (abruptly leaving the scene)? I suppose if you did and they had any kind of growing stuff that'd be pretty bad for them, eh?

What's it like? Do you sleep there overnight or go home at the end of the day? It's hard to imagine a city having the resources to send a LEO out, off the streets, to stay up all night in hopes of getting a late night visitor (can't imagine anyone visiting late at night either! I mean at like 3 in the morning)...but maybe CAMP officers? Or maybe cities do place night patrol officers out in the hills in their sleeping bags? Who knows!

I hope these questions are not too much. I'm excited to hear your response and thank you for your time should you be able to respond. Your stories are like campfire stories for many of us, I'm sure. Wish I had journal after journal of your experience and stories. Hopefully, if you miss one of these questions or something I really wanted to know it'll be ok if I repeat one or two of these questions. I know how difficult it can be to respond to everything. I have a few other questions I'm dying to ask after this as well.

THANKS!

__________________
Speaking theoretically of course. I'm only curious.

Ganja Warrior

Surveillance is an art more than a science. We do what needs to be done for the particular situation.

If we are trying to determine a pattern, we will set up cameras on the trail or where the growers enter the woods. Once a pattern is determined then we move the cameras to the garden to get evidence of cultivation. The cameras are silent and often remoted, so that the images are transmitted out of the area.

If we can't determine a pattern, or can't ID the grower, we set up actual physical surveillance. We are cammied up, and will get close. We usually have a camera person where they get a good view of marijuana plants. The arrest team is hidden as close as possilbe, in most cases. Once the cameraman announces he has good video evidence, we spring the ambush. How that happens just depends on the circumstance.

I have never been discovered by growers or citizens, but have heard plenty of stories of other LEOs who have. I have no way of knowing if I've ever been observed and the growers just left. I have always made an arrest when I set up on a garden, except of one time when the perons that was supposed to close the "back door" of the ambush had her Walkman on and didn't hear that we were gonna arrest the grower.

Cameras get found regularily. The funniest story I have heard is about a National Park Service camera that was set up on a small grow. When the cops came back to get the tape, the camera and the sensors that activiated it were gone. They looked all over for it but couldn't find it. They eradicated the garden, which had not budded out yet.

Several weeks later, the camera was left on the front door of the "top cop" for that Park. Inside was a tape of the cops looking all over the garden for their camera. It seems the growers had simply repositioned the camera, and done a better job than the LEOs. I'll bet copies of the tape are still shown at harvest parties...hahaha.

With my group, we camp out on the site when we set up. My feelings are that once you successfully insert, you stay there until it is successful, or your time limit has been reached.

Curious_Head

Very cool thread going here, thanks GW.

In your experience, do cultivators ever visit their grows at night, or in the early hours of the morning? Have you had any experience aprehending cultivators at this hour? When you do set up on a grow, do you make sure a member of your team is up all night watching? I would guess that while any garden visitors would make noise that would probably wake you up, there is also the element of danger (of them finding you asleep). That would freak me out, sleeping at a grow without someone standing watch. Or maybe grows simply aren't visited at 3 in the morning in your experience?

BTW - great story about the camera!

__________________
Speaking theoretically of course. I'm only curious.

Ganja Warrior

Yes, we've had growers who ONLY work at nite. We use night vision goggles, personal security sensors, and if we are in the site itself, we stand watch.

Curious_Head

GW,

Many imagine, I'm sure, a marijuana bust in the forest to be somewhat intimidating, with weapons drawn and aimed, etc. Is this a realistic picture of your work, or do you not even draw weapons unless the cultivators clearly have weapons? Does the law guide you in this area of when/when not to draw a weapon? Or is it up to your discretion?

Also, I was reading something about the Tennessee vs. Garner case (1985?) the other day which made it illegal, from the federal level, to shoot an unarmed suspect who is fleeing. Or was that convicted felon who was unarmed and fleeing. I think this mandated that all states follow this rule? Anyway, do you ever shoot at people who flee (like the movies...STOP, or I'll SHOOT!)? My guess would be no, but it'd sure be interesting to know. Any stories about chasing people down either successfully or unsuccessfully (or just plain yes or no about chasing people down if can't think of a story)?

__________________
Speaking theoretically of course. I'm only curious.

Ganja Warrior

We always have guns drawn and pointed at the arrestees. No we can't not shoot at anyone, felons or not, who are fleeing if we can't articulate how they are an IMMEDIATE danger to us or someone else.

I've only had one grower, that I know of, get away.

I was the end of growing season and all the "suits" wanted to get into a garden. I had myself and three
"stupidvisors" on the surveillance team.

We inserted at first light into a grow in a canyon. I had spotted the garden a week earlier and we decided to "recon by occupation." I had seen several "patches" in the general area of the garden into which we we inserted.

I started to recon for the other patches but one of the "bosses" wanted to go instead. After most of the morning, he returned to announce that there were no trails or gardens downstream from us. That nite we remained in place. I told everyone that we would "stand to" at first light. Roger's Rangers Standing Order # whatever says "Don't sleep past dawn. Dawn's when the French and Indians attack."

At about 0600, I got my sh*t in one bag and lashed down tight. I turned on the camera, checked that the sensors were working, and started calling the other team members on the radio. Only one responded. At about 0800 I still had not heard from any of them. At about 0815 the sensors started going off. I broadcasted on the net that the sensors had been activated. At about 0820, I could hear footsteps coming down the drainage. Shortly, a Hispanic male came into camera view and began turning the water system on. I got full face views on him. Still hadn't heard from the other two "team members." What the h*ll!

I announced over the radio that I had video and was going to announce. I turned the camera off, slid outta my hidey hole, started running silently toward the garden. At about 15 yards, I announced "POLICE, YOU'RE UNDER ARREST!!!!"

The grower's hair stood straight up. He looked up hill at me and bolted right toward the "boss" who was positioned to "slam the door" on him, with me in hot pursuit. To my surprise, we ran past the hidey hole without seeing or hearing anyone. To my further surprise we were on a freaking "highway" thru the woods that lead thru not one, not two, but three more gardens. The last I saw of the grower was a**holes and elbows.

When I got back to the surveillance site, I found the boss in the arrest position still in her sleeping bag with her Walkman on listening to Barry Manilow's greatest hits. The boss at the top end was still in his jammies.

I screamed, threw a hissy fit and swore that I would never again go into the field with a bunch of suits. I'll bet the grower didn't stop until he hit Mexicali. All that and they pay me too.

Curious_Head

Top-notch post, GW. Thanks ! Extremely funny story - especially about the stupideriors all in their jammies, etc, lol. :O

Have you ever encountered any traps when setting up on a garden? Have you heard of this happening to other LEOs? Seems like the answer is often "It's never happened to me, but it has happened to plenty of other LEOs." Are there any specific practices/strategies, in your opinion, that separate your record from the somewhat not-so-perfect game records of the other LEOs? What do you do differently that allows you to basically always take whole package home, along with infrequently having any problems that other LEOs seem to have? Maybe...what are some of the dumbest, bless their gung-ho hearts, things that LEOs can do while setting up on a garden, or invesgtigating a garden. For example, I suppose if you saw a notebook in a garden you might not touch it, while the common LEO would perhaps? I guess this question is basically what makes a good camp office and what makes a ***tty one with some specific pointers (or examples) if possible.

__________________
Speaking theoretically of course. I'm only curious.

Ganja Warrior

Curious

We don't find "booby traps" in gardens much anymore. Both the Feds and the States passed laws enhancing sentences for possession "injurious devices" in marijuana gardens.

The most recent dangerous trend is armed growers living in the gardens. Most all of the hispanic growers we encounter in the REALLY BIG outdoor grows in Cali are armed. Most don't have any problem shooting it out with the police.

Last year the first grower was shot dead in a garden in central Cali by the cops raiding the patch after he pointed a handgun at the officers ahd didn't heed the warnings, in Spanish, to drop the gun. I fear this trend is going to continue. Incidents like this tend to make us more apprehensive when raiding big patches. You know, automatic weapons, flash-bangs, the whole nine yards.

Keep in mind, there is no way for me to know if growers have seen me and simply gave up the garden. I have had several instances where we allow say 3 days to surveil a grow and when no one comes, we simply pull the garden and move to the next. We usually do this on gardens that are on water timers. If the garden is hand watered, we allow more time and more intensively investigate it, knowing that someone will have to come to the garden regularly.

If I'm gonna investigate a grow, I don't touch nuthin' while I'm investigating, and try and not even walk through the grow, but look and take pictures from outside the patch. I take alot of polaroid pictures so I can see if I have disturbed anything before leaving.

If it's an eradication operation, we rip and run. I collect anything that might have evidentury value and examine it later.

Curious_Head

Yeah...that would really suck having to make those decisions when growers have guns, etc.

I wish there were no large-scale grows, but just environmental-friendly small-scale-personal use gardens. Too bad...sometimes it seems like the illegality in and of itself attracts bad stuff. Too bad there's so much greed and fear in the world. Sucks to be sure.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

My next question concerns GROWING IN TREES Seems everyone likes to talk about growing in trees but you never really hear of anyone who's had any success...and it never seems to make any sense to boot. I can't imagine how someone would water their grow in a tree, let alone conceal it from flights. Seems like it would really stick out in a tree top? or even on the side of the tree. I know you're always up to date on the latest stuff for your profession and perhaps (most likely, if this is done) tree-growing is old-school. Have you had any experience with grows in trees? Do you specifically look for them, or are they very easy to spot? Seems like from the air, everything would look like the ground. I can't imagine a tree helping any prospective grower, and it seems as it would stand out in the foilage of the tree top. And I especially can't imagine watering such a crop.

So...it'd be cool to know if you find these all the time, and if you do...what are they like? How do they water them, for example? And do you actively look in the trees?

Kind of funny, I know.

__________________
Speaking theoretically of course. I'm only curious.

revolutionary84

Hey Ganja Warrior
Can you help us with how not to get caught. such as the hardest ways to spot mj plants outdoors? or atleast tell us how u find most of the plants.