MoJo

Quite the interesting thread. Thank you Blue, and thank you all who added a little science to the discussion.

I know some people say you can not mix science and religion, but science is my religion, so there you go.

Now I am not currently growing, but I will sure keep some bananas and apples handy for when I do.

Have anyone tried to use fruits to hasten harves/ripening?

reach420

Allow me please to add to your data...

4 plants from quality, not-feminized seed. 2 bananas, refreshed when needed from sprout to flower.

Now 16 days into flower I have 3 confirmed females and 1 male. The male, sure enough, was the monster grower, towering twice as tall and thick as the females. Textbook.

So, I'm pretty happy...

Religion is the perfect description. I sat in the front pu (sp?) and my prayers were answered - still tough to maintain faith however that the bananas had anything to do with it. Can't prove it. I'll be using bananas next time though too, that's for sure.

Did anyone graph a tally from this thread?

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penguin

Keep in mind that ethylene promotes senescence, so you wouldn't want to use it throughout the entire grow.

I would also say that it is not a good practice to use it in your breeding program. Your breeding population should be grown in "typical" environmental conditions, and constant high ethylene levels are definitely not typical. Ethylene exposure will affect phenotype, and the selection process; you will be selecting for tolerance to or dependence upon exogenous ethylene.

The other thing that concerns me with ethylene-treated plants is the possible tendency for apparent females to start producing male flowers when you stop providing ethylene. Personally, I have always selected for strongly dioecious plants and my screening process is designed to identify and cull any plants that show any tendency to monoecy at all. IMO, it would be really good for the gene pool if all breeders did that. The recent trend to "feminized" seed and the growing prevalence of random breeding with "hermaphrodites" is a serious threat to dioecy in drug varieties of .

One thing that ethylene treatment might be good for is selecting strongly dioecious males, for breeding purposes.


penguin

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Plucky Purcell

Penguin, that's intriguing. Do you know if/where further reading on this is located? I'm interested in finding out more...

sli phox

just picked up a banana plant from the local nursery and dropped it in my grow room.

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mattdreads

why not just 2 banana's? make a circle around the plant?

sillysister

I tried bananas twice this season. The first time was on my current indoor grow with newly purchased seeds. 2 out of 12 plants were male. previously I was getting at least 50% males. Now mind you, when I got those high male to female ratios I was also using seeds that I produced from plants that did not have optimum growing conditions. I had water problems. So I was thrilled to get the number of females I did with the new experiment on purchased seeds.

Second experiment: I germed 14 of the previously produced seeds (my bag seeds) and used bananas as instructed. I had the seedlings under domes and bananas in each so that the gas was trapped in there infusing all the seedlings. I have 6 females outta the bunch. This is pretty much the rate I was getting with these seeds pre-bananas. Not to mention that 2 of these bag seeds with the first experiment at least one hermied on me. The other is just starting to flower outdoors so the jury is still out on that one.

Conclusion: I think that bananas alone won't influence bad seeds. I was all set to jump on board because of my results with the new seeds (first experiment) but now I am not so sure the bananas can be given full credit for the results being that the same results were not duplicated with the second batch of seeds. I guess a better experiment would be a side by side one with the same seeds, same everything except for one set without bananas or apples. And I did wonder about the possibility of influencing an otherwise male plant to female and if that is what caused the hermy effect - like penguin is writing about. I also strongly feel that in breeding, one is better off not messing with Mother Nature but working within her limits. I am vehemently opposed to genetic modification in our food plants because I fear we will end up with crap and won't have the original genetics if we need to go back to square one. I also wonder if we aren't doing something similar when we manipulate mj with gas or other means. I am so not a scientist. These are just some rambling thoughts of a simple farmer this morning...

ss

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seaman

My plants are 2 weeks old. When should I start putting bananas around them ?

Lou Cypher

sillysister I think the problem was, that you trapped all the gas in the dome.
Ethylene gas in nature just flows with the wind, when the plants need some, they absorb some, is not force to them.
Personally, I don't consider the influence of ethylene gas, as manipulation of mother nature.
More like , simulating the natural environment that plants grow on.

seaman, 2 weeks old is perfect, put some fruits around them already.

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Lou Cypher

This is one of the articles that I had researched before I decided to use fruits in my GR.

About Ethylene Gas
Ethylene Gas C2H4

Ethylene gas (C2H4) is an odorless, colorless gas that exists in nature and is also created by man-made sources. Not easily detectable, it exists where produce is stored. In nature, the largest producers are plant and plant products (ie. fruits, vegetables and floral products) which produce ethylene within their tissues and release it into the surrounding atmosphere. It is also a by-product of man-made processes, such as combustion.

As is often the case, the role of ethylene and its effects on produce was discovered by accident. Lemon growers would store newly harvested green lemons in sheds kept warm by kerosene heaters until they turned yellow and ripened enough to market. When new modern heating systems were tried, the lemons no longer turned yellow on time. Research soon found that the important factor in the ripening process was small amounts of ethylene gas given off by the burning kerosene in the heaters.

Ethylene, also known as the 'death' or 'ripening hormone' plays a regulatory role in many processes of plant growth, development and eventually death. Fruits, vegetables and flowers contain receptors which serve as bonding sites to absorb free atmospheric ethylene molecules. The common practice of placing a tomato, avocado or banana in a paper bag to hasten ripening is an example of the action of ethylene on produce. Increased levels of ethylene contained within the bag, released by the produce itself, serves as a stimulant after reabsorption to initiate the production of more ethylene. The overall effect is to hasten ripening, aging and eventually spoilage. A refrigerator acts in much the same way. Kept closed to retain the desired temperature, it also enables an increased concentration of ethylene to accumulate. Any closed environment, such as a truck trailer, shipping container or warehouse, will have a similar effect.

Storage of produce items is of economic importance to the food and floral industry. Storage allows producers, handlers and sellers to spread availability over periods of strong and weak demand, maintaining supply and stabilizing cost.

Ethylene Sensitivity Chart

N=None H=High L=Low M=Medium VH=Very High VL=Very Low


Perishable Temperature Ethylene Ethylene
Commodities C / F Production Sensitivity


Fruits & Vegetables

Apple (non-chilled) 1.1 / 30 VH H
Apple (chilled) 4.4 / 40 VH H
Apricot -0.5 / 31 H H
Artichoke 0 / 32 VL L
Asian Pear 1.1 / 34 H H
Asparagus 2.2 / 36 VL M (Toughness)
Avocado (California) 3.3 / 38 H H
Avocado (Tropical) 10.0 / 50 H H
Banana 14.4 / 58 M H
Beans (Lima) 0 / 32 L M
Beans (Snap/Green) 7.2 / 45 L M
Belgian Endive 2.2 / 36 VL M
Berries (Blackberry) -0.5 / 31 L L (Mold)
Berries (Blueberry) -0.5 / 31 L L (Mold)
Berries (Cranberry) 2.2 / 36 L L (Mold)
Berries (Currants) -0.5 / 31 L L (Mold)
Berries (Dewberry) -0.5 / 31 L L (Mold)
Berries (Elderberry) -0.5 / 31 L L (Mold)
Berries (Gooseberry) -0.5 / 31 L L (Mold)
Berries (Loganberry) -0.5 / 31 L L (Mold)
Berries (Raspberry) -0.5 / 31 L L (Mold)
Berries (Strawberry) -0.5 / 31 L L (Mold)
Breadfruit 13.3 / 56 M M
Broccoli 0 / 32 VL H (Yellowing)
Brussel Sprouts 0 / 32 VL H
Cabbage 0 / 32 VL H
Cantalope 4.4 / 40 H M
Cape Gooseberry 12.2 / 54 L L
Carrots (Topped) 0 / 32 VL L (Bitterness)
Casaba Melon 10.0 / 50 L L
Cauliflower 0 / 32 VL H
Celery 0 / 32 VL M
Chard 0 / 32 VL H
Cherimoya 12.8 / 55 VH H
Cherry (Sour) -0.5 / 31 VL L (Softening)
Cherry (Sweet) -1.1 / 30 VL L (Softening)
Chicory 0 / 32 VL H
Chinese Gooseberry 0 / 32 L H
Collards 0 / 32 VL M
Crenshaw Melon 10.0 / 50 M H
Cucumbers 10.0 / 50 L H (Yellowing)
Eggplant 10.0 / 50 L L
Endive (Escarole) 0 / 32 VL M
Feijoa 5.0 / 41 M L
Figs 0 / 32 M L
Garlic 0 / 32 VL L (Odor)
Ginger 13.3 / 56 VL L
Grapefruit (AZ,CA,FL,TX) 13.3 / 56 VL M (Mold)
Grapes -1.1 / 30 VL L (Mold)
Greens (Leafy) 0 / 32 VL H (Russet Spotting)
Guava 10 / 50 L M
Honeydew 10 / 50 M H
Horseradish 0 / 32 VL L
Jack Fruit 13.3 / 56 M M
Kale 0 / 32 VL M
Kiwi Fruit 0 / 32 L H
Kohlrabi 0 / 32 VL L
Leeks 0 / 32 VL M
Lemons 12.2 / 54 VL M (Mold)
Lettuce (Butterhead) 0 / 32 L M (Russet Spotting)
Lettuce (Head/Iceberg) 0 / 32 VL H (Russet Spotting)
Lime 12.2 / 54 VL M (Mold Degreen)
Lychee 1.7 /35 M M
Mandarine 7.2 / 45 VL M
Mango 13.3 / 56 M H
Mangosteen 13.3 / 56 M H
Mineola 3.3 / 38 L L
Mushrooms 0 / 32 L M
Nectarine -0.5 / 31 H H
Okra 10.0 / 50 L M
Olive 7.2 / 45 L M
Onions (Dry) 0 / 32 VL L (Odor)
Onions (Green) 0 / 32 VL M
Orange (CA,AZ) 7.2 / 45 VL M
Orange (FL,TX) 2.2 / 36 VL M
Papaya 12.2 / 54 H H
Paprika 10.0 / 50 L L
Parsnip 0 / 32 VL L
Parsley 0 / 32 VL H
Passion Fruit 12.2 / 54 VH H
Peach -0.5 / 31 H H
Pear (Anjou,Bartlett/Bosc) 1.1 / 30 H H
Pear (Prickley) 5.0 / 41 N L
Peas 0 / 32 VL M
Pepper (Bell) 10.0 / 50 L L
Pepper (Chile) 10.0 / 50 L L
Persian Melon 10.0 / 50 M H
Persimmon (Fuyu) 10.0 / 50 L H
Persimmon (Hachiya) 0.5 / 41 L H
Pineapple 10.0 / 50 L L
Pineapple (Guava) 5.0 / 41 M L
Plantain 14.4 / 58 L H
Plum/Prune -0.5 / 31 M H
Pomegranate 5.0 / 41 L L
Potato (Processing) 10.0 / 50 VL M (Sprouting)
Potato (Seed) 4.4 / 40 VL M
Potato (Table) 7.2 / 45 VL M
Pumpkin 12.2 / 54 L L
Quince -0.5 / 31 L H
Radishes 0 / 32 VL L
Red Beet 2.8 / 37 VL L
Rambutan 12.2 / 54 H H
Rhubard 0 / 32 VL L
Rutabaga 0 / 32 VL L
Sapota 12.2 / 54 VH H
Spinach 0 / 32 VL H
Squash (Hard Skin) 12.2 / 54 L L
Squash (Soft Skin) 10.0 / 50 L M
Squash (Summer) 7.2 / 45 L M
Squash (Zucchini) 7.2 / 45 N N
Star Fruit 8.9 / 48 L L
Swede (Rhutabaga) 0 / 32 VL L
Sweet Corn 0 / 32 VL L
Sweet Potato 13.3 / 56 VL L
Tamarillo 0 / 32 L M
Tangerine 7.2 / 45 VL M
Taro Root 7.2 / 45 N N
Tomato (Mature/Green) 13.3 / 56 VL H
Tomato (Brkr/Lt Pink) 10.0 / 50 M H
Tree-Tomato 3.9 / 39 H M
Turnip (Roots) 0 / 32 VL L
Turnip (Greens) 0 / 32 VL H
Watercress 0 / 32 VL H
Watermelon 10,0 / 50 L H
Yam 13.3 / 56 VL L

Live Plants

Cut Flowers (Carnations) 0 / 32 VL H (Sleepiness)
Cut Flowers (Chrysanthemums) 0 / 32 VL H
Cut Flowers (Gladioli) 2.2 / 36 VL H
Cut Flowers (Roses) 0 / 32 VL H (Open Sooner)
Potted Plants -2.8-18.3 / 27-65 VL H
Nursery Stock -1.1-4.4 / 30-40 VL H (Slower Start)
Christmas Trees 0 / 32 N N
Flowers Bulbs (Bulbs/ 7.2-15 / 45-59 VL H
Corms/Rhizomes/Tubers)

cont......

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