JustJointGirl

Hi Plant, Sorry for the late responce.
Well, Kudos in your research. If I were in your shoes, I probally wouldve opted for the sativa strain also, after researching the strain used in clinical studies. Thats about all we can do right now, research- research-research! I do feel SO BAD for the people who dont have the time, or skills it takes to do so much studying. I also can not help but to be mad at times, knowing this WHOLE THING is Trial and Error AT OUR EXPENSE! It sucks to not have any answers and to be so desperate to find em and I really wish I knew more? But that is why I keep on!
OK about the Sativa... If Indica can be mixed in, maybe this will help. Did you find out the exact strain that was used in the studies?
Also try this..
Try the oil with a meal. This may help with the jitters.
Try smaller daytime doses, and if you can handle it, bump it up at night. Keep it where you can still sleep.
Try to relax. Maybe set the mood for a relaxing atmosphere. Try to rest when possible. Candles, soft music, meditation, anything that will help you relax.

JointGirl

JustJointGirl

Here is a few more updates from people on other sites. The first is a video released by someone who supplies the oil in his area. He is treating a patient with Parkinsons Disease. Within 25 minutes of dose of oil, the shaking stops and his body language returns to almost normal. By the end of video, he is able to get up and walk unassisted. He can walk accross the room without holding onto walls and furniture. He opts for the oil over the meds the Dr.s prescribe. Both controll the symptoms of the Parkinsons, but only on the oil can he funtction. The meds leave him in a daze, with frequent black-outs. The only ill effect he experienced on the oil was a time when he took 1 gram in 1 dose. He felt very high, and went to sleep for a day & 1/2. On the second day, he still felt trippy. After wakening back up, he did not shake for 4 days. Since then, he controlls his dosing, and doesnt get a 'high' effect from it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83Ue8...embedded#t=609

The 2nd update comes from Vincent Squatch. He is a friend of Jack Herers, and has been taking the oil to help with Cystic Fibrosis amoung many other things. This is the latest info on Vincent and Jack...

Hello I had troble getting on the garden site today maybe they are fixing a bug. I ate salmon with Jack and chuck the wensday before they left to oregon. I was shocked to hear the news. I spoke with JeanieHerer ,Jack has face movements and yawns which is good. Jeanie said that Jack is strong and has the voice of a thousand men so no matter what happens he will always be diffrent to make a diffrence .Beautifully put. I told her of monks that are suspended in a diffrent realm (coma) and people go and lay hands and pray and a honor of peace is granted withen the soul. I am still taking Rick s oil. Spoke with him for the first time this month he is a great man. I was out for two weeks because of a fiascco from the last 2 weeks of aug. and my breathing worsend and my oxygen level fell to 88. Now I am good again and back on track . MY DOCTOR TOLD ME TO KEEP TAKING THE OIL ! I was glad he finnally saw what happens when I dont. ..Check out my first show on my myspace tv8 420 show hemp hour mediacom cable 12,000 people get it in lake and napa county. Go to current tv.com check out H.E.M.P for a great site started by Jeanie Herer and look for my show on there by oct. and youtube also.
Thanx Vincent Squatch


Happy Healing,
JointGirl

EZMark

Thanks for the update JGG
I always appreciate your efforts here.

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Futuregrower

I see a lot of people using "a drop the size of a grain of rice". Is it the THC in the oil, or placebo effect? Seems like a small dose of anything, imo.
Can this be done in a double-blind study? Will it help if people don't know they are getting it, or do the positive attitudes help them heal? Is it just a case of only listen to the people saying they were cured, ignore the ones who weren't?

A lot of these claims can be caused by the study effect- the effect of people acting differently when in a study. For instance, a new weight loss pill is introduced. Some of the study group then start thinking of eating healthier and exercising more. This leads to weight loss, but was it the pill, or the exercise people didn't even think about that got them to lose weight? Or simply feeling good about being pro-active, which lowers stress, which helps some people lose weight?

Sounds like the blood pressure/ sugar/ cholesterol lowering claims. People take the oil, then start eating better, and feeling more pro-active, therefore they start moving around more. All of these things will lower blood sugar/pressure/cholesterol.

If it works for you, great. It's certainly becoming more available.
I think it's wonderful what the mind can do, given the opportunity.
I'd love to see a double-blind test. Maybe in Cali? Don't tell people they are or are not getting the oil rubbed on their cancer or whatever.

anyone know of a double-blind study? With all those 420 doctors in cali who only write reccomends for MJ, should be a few clinical trials.
Sorry if I missed it in the post, there's a lot of info/links to read.

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~~ The Once And FutureGrower
The futures here, we are it, we are on our own....Singing Ashes, ashes all fall down......

"I inhaled, frequently," Senator Obama said before being elected President "That was the point."

First Grow! Twofer, Mandalas "Satori" and KC Brain's "Northern Lights Special"
http://www.gardenscure.com/420/hydro...kc-brains.html

Caution! (Do not stop on tracks). Grow 2

LINK to a great way to search, written by Burndt

Lucky27

Futuregrower I think you're over speculating here and
you need to do some more research on the scientifically
and medicinally proven benefits of Cannabinoids. Health Canada's website
is a good place to start.

Sounds to me like you are sceptical of the medical benefits clearly
you have no ailments for it to benefit.

Or you wouldn't be asking yourself these questions.

I was born with chronic asthma. I took synthetic puffers and
pills right up until I became a serious chronic toker.

In the last three years I smoked Cannabis everyday and
haven't needed a puffer at all. I have literally stopped
taking all synthetic asthma drugs and I only toke.

Is that because Asthma just grew legs and walked away?

Or because Cannabis is Anti Spasmodic, Anti Inflammatory
and a Bronchial Dialator

All in one wonder drug. I believe it.

Maybe not the cure for everyones problems.

Certainly has been the cure for my asthma.

Futuregrower

What im asking is, does anyone have a double-blind study on it?
or is it the placebo effect?


"Sounds to me like you are sceptical of the medical benefits clearly
you have no ailments for it to benefit."
Clearly , I have high blood pressure, high cholesterol, at risk for diabetes (blood sugar is 100, fasting, regularly.).

And yes, I am always skeptical. I know some think it is the end-all cure-all, but a drop of oil the size of a grain of rice?
OK, wheres the studies?
If that was all there was to it- 1 drop cures almost anything- there would be no-one left in Calis cancer wards.

Thats why I said, "If it works for you, great. It's certainly becoming more available.
I think it's wonderful what the mind can do, given the opportunity.
I'd love to see a double-blind test. Maybe in Cali? Don't tell people they are or are not getting the oil rubbed on their cancer or whatever."

Does it work for you? great!!
Would it still work, if someone told you the non-thc hemp oil was the best thing in the world?

as always, if it works, use it. But I'm trusting Zocor more than hemp to lower cholesterol till I see proof.

__________________
~~ The Once And FutureGrower
The futures here, we are it, we are on our own....Singing Ashes, ashes all fall down......

"I inhaled, frequently," Senator Obama said before being elected President "That was the point."

First Grow! Twofer, Mandalas "Satori" and KC Brain's "Northern Lights Special"
http://www.gardenscure.com/420/hydro...kc-brains.html

Caution! (Do not stop on tracks). Grow 2

LINK to a great way to search, written by Burndt

P3nelope

despite the great gains in medicalized acknowledgment and access to cannabinoid treatments in many regions of North America and the rest of the world, cannabis remains listed by the WHO as having "NO MEDICAL VALUE"
this is the main cause and effect of the overwhelming lack of empirical data from controlled studies by accredited scientific communities-- kinda like the chicken or the egg syndrome

~many MMJ sympathizers in accredited positions would snatch up any opportunity to conduct controlled clinical trials!!!
unfortunately medical, academic and legal institutions are bound up together in a standardized ethical review process, among other formal regulations
...mountains of red-tape with disproportionate access to loopholes...
ie. prohibitionist and pharmaceutical representatives seem to find their way thru often enough to emphasize the dangers of raw cannabis and market Marinol or Sativex or Cesamet

Cali does have the most established MMJ access programs so far, and steps are being taken in many other regions to challenge the expert status of medical authorities on the subject of cannabis and cannabinoids thru clinical study,
but passing ethical review boards prior to undertaking clinical trials with human subjects is as mandatory as legitimized access to research material not a simple procedure, especially given the research involves an allegedly dangerous substance of questionable legal status

the arguement runs on circular logic and seems to be only muddied further by such extreme allegations that is is a panacea for any-and-all illness
{BTW~the mythological archetype of the goddess Panacea is merely one of a nine sibling-set, 7 of which are directly linked to the healing arts-- and 2 of her 4 sisters team the actual responsibility for convalescence}

IMO-- claims of cannabis as a 'cure-all' might be as detrimental to the debate as saying it has no 'proven' medical value...
the known properties of the 66+ known cannabinoids and its extremely low effective:lethal dose ratio does imply that it is indicated for the treatment of over 1600 health conditions ...and anecdotal evidence suggests that cannabis and cannabinoid concentrates have much relevance as versatile treatment options...
but i don't think the capacity of medical professionals and the need for institutionalized medicine can be dismissed either...tho i believe this critical issue does shadow the integrity of such medical associations, i have hope that soon the light will shine into the ivory tower even if i do suspect motives

meanwhile, those interested in understanding and employing the medical benefits of cannabis and concentrates for even self-administration have no choice but to rely on anecdotal evidence from case studies and subjective reports of experiences
:no: this field research doesn't provide the same kinds of validity and reliability measures as laboratory experimentation,
but communicating the information has to happen somehow otherwise 'informed consent' is just a pipe dream gone up in smoke without seeds for future generations
and i shouldn't even start in on how science always fails to produce 'proof'...just evidence to support various theoretical degrees until falsified... yea lol.

i just wanted to stop in to applaud all those who've had to courage to report their experiences incorporating cannabinoids into professionally supervised treatment plans and if someone wants to subjectively describe it as their personal 'wonder drug' and affect it with an immeasurable placebo hope, i don't take much issue at all not unless they are s'posed to be presenting as definitive expert authorities, that is ahahhahaha

for your journaling and reporting efforts JJG, i appreciate the updates too
and kudos to all those sharing personal experiences and observations on the medical value of cannabis and derivatives

end rant
P3n

__________________
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When the clock strikes me
the powers of being will prevail
over the powers that be
--Saul Williams
with hour own two hands This isn't the Legend of P3nny's Panties

Sso

Or because Cannabis is Anti Spasmodic, Anti Inflammatory
and a Bronchial Dialator


on this lucky27, for the last week ive had a rather bad cold. i wake up night coughing and sniffing and same mornings.

then i have a tiny toke, which allows me to have a slightly bigger toke, which leads on to a normal size toke. (im coughing so much, big ole wet coughs, so its hard getting Anything down)

and voila sniffing and coughing gone.

not too mention the nose that stops running...

lol amazing, smoke to clear up your cough...

now if only i had a vapourizer or some oil, but still this is a miracle drug.

smoke, to clear, up your cough.

oh i have asthma too, but i rarely notice it, only if i havent smoked. then just a tad.

Futuregrower

p3n, the part about cure-all claims being detrimental is what I'm saying. It makes it sound like the patent medicines of old- of COURSE they made people feel better, they were laced with opium!
Also the whole "drop the size of a grain of rice" thing bothers me.

As far as asthma and others are concerned, you are treating the symptom, not the disease. You still have asthma, you can just breathe better the days you use. I think a lot of it is study effect- you act differently on it, and don't notice the symptoms as much, so think yourself "cured". Same with the high blood pressure, etc. etc., a lot of which can be changed by diet, exercise, and mood as well as medication.
That's why I ask for tests- if it's really helping, you could give it to someone without their knowing, and the cholesterol goes down.

I think of it like aspirin- there may be benefits, and low risk of harm, but it is not the cure -all. The placebo effect cannot be discounted. This is one of those where I suspect the good results get remembered more than the not-good results, and anyone who smokes weed while sick, then gets better, points to the weed, forgetting the Penicillin.

As always, if it works for you, great!!
All I'm asking is objectivity.
(^^lol remember that part before you blast me!! )

.......given my high triglyceride levels, [mod note: jokinng or not, no hookups] I'm due for a cholesterol test in 1-2 weeks. I'll get tested, then go off Zocor and onto Hemp Oil for a month. Then re-test, same doctor, same clinic, and post the results. I've been off zocor for a month before- the cholesterol shoots up, so I have a known base-level.
My plants are not ready for at least 2 months of flowering still, likely 75 days.

__________________
~~ The Once And FutureGrower
The futures here, we are it, we are on our own....Singing Ashes, ashes all fall down......

"I inhaled, frequently," Senator Obama said before being elected President "That was the point."

First Grow! Twofer, Mandalas "Satori" and KC Brain's "Northern Lights Special"
http://www.gardenscure.com/420/hydro...kc-brains.html

Caution! (Do not stop on tracks). Grow 2

LINK to a great way to search, written by Burndt

P3nelope

i'ma not intending to blast anyone i just wanted to note my personal discomfort with the extremist presentation of canna as 'cure-all'-- while acknowledging that no matter the ideal of objectivity in research, the formal systems are designed and implemented in such a way that objectivity just isn't a reality at the moment for cannabinoid research

asking for it is one think, but expecting and settling for nothink less than controlled studies is quite another --altho a rational personal perspective that i would ideally agree with... well, i think most of us would prolly agree that the medical relevance of cannabinoids should be objectively researched, and the findings be reported objectively with due attention to all possible benefits, associated harms and compounding variables including placebo effects, please & thank-you

basically, i appreciate the sentiments you are trying to convey Futuregrower and i believe your intentions are good
but, well... i just meant to offer my opinion that emphasizing the lack of objective research on this topic is too often counterproductive to gaining legitimacy for the subjects involved...
~cannabis is illegal cuz it's deemed dangerous cuz there's no objective evidence of its medical value~cannabis can't be objectively assessed for its harms & benefits cuz it's illegal~cannabis is illegal cuz it's deemed dangerous cuz...

it's more convoluted than the employability cycle and the only way out seems to be volunteerism
and expectations of objective professionalism in a forum thread not created or maintained by trained professionals isn't exactly reasonable, IMHO
it's just easier for me to consider the grains of salt as flavour, but ?maybe flushing isn't such a bad idea every now and then

i agree that questioning the alleged 'curative' properties of cannabinoids is healthy skepticism to include in this thread tho {which admittedly may give an overall inflated impression of faith in the powers of cannabis} and i have been unsure how best to challenge the more extreme claims of medical value without it seeming like a blast directed at anyone thank-you for the signpost of caution

but i do not want the tension of unattainable objectivity to discourage further investigation and reporting in any way...
if/when you've secured your own supply of oil Futuregrower, i will be happy to read any reports you might make in 75+days plus a month of self-administrated oil treatments, sans Zocor private experiments involving comparative lab results don't have to be entirely objective to provide useful examples and points for discussion

you've brought up a number of good points, indeed but this rant is prolly too long already so i'll save the rest of my response for later

respect to all
Pen

__________________
That was when I saw the Pendulum. -- Umberto Eco
When the clock strikes me
the powers of being will prevail
over the powers that be
--Saul Williams
with hour own two hands This isn't the Legend of P3nny's Panties