Creating the Superclone-Colchicine Experiment

xyz · 05-26-2005, 02:56 PM

Creating the Superclone-Colchicine Experiment

Well I am going to treat some seeds and see what happens.
I remember getting some good results 'back in the day'.
I still have 16 pills, 0.6mg, dated Jan. 1, 1983
Hope it's still good.

There has been much discussion on this subject: Here is the link to the Colchicine discussion thread

Below is the design for the experiment as of now.
Please chime in with any ideas you might have for design of this experiment. Multiple heads are better than one. We can make it a community effort with a little help.

Step 1-Baseline information
Sample of two different sets of seeds going to germ. - 5/25 in process
Determine germination rate.

Step 2-Colchicine treatment
Treat sets of seeds with Colchicine over variables that include time and concentration.

Step 3-Germination
Segregate seed sets and place in paper towels.

vernonsupreme · 05-26-2005, 09:01 PM

sounds good to me xyz...i don't really have the time for it though...from what I was readin on overgrow last night on the subject you have to soak the seeds, grow those into plants, then get seeds off of that plant and grow those before the smoke is viable? i guess if you got the mutations you were looking for it would be all worthwhile, but I just don't have the space to do such an experiment. you got the whole workbench though

i'd be happy to have ya bounce ideas off me though, I am interested in what is going on/going to happen.

xyz · 05-26-2005, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vernonsupreme

sounds good to me xyz...i don't really have the time for it though...from what I was readin on overgrow last night on the subject you have to soak the seeds, grow those into plants, then get seeds off of that plant and grow those before the smoke is viable? i guess if you got the mutations you were looking for it would be all worthwhile, but I just don't have the space to do such an experiment. you got the whole workbench though

i'd be happy to have ya bounce ideas off me though, I am interested in what is going on/going to happen.

Thanks Vern-ideas are the only thing I am looking for. That's what I ment by a community grow.

I just dont want to look back and say 'Oh s**t, I wish I would of thought of that".

I will cover the actual apparatus and subjects.

BTW - ""In my opinion"", that 'wait a generation to smoke it' is bunk.
People take .6mg daily.
It is toxic stuff but the amt the seed absorbes is miniscule. Spread it out over the entire harvested plant and you have less.
The drug can't replicate itself.

I will be careful when handeling the pills and the solution but wont give a second thought to smoking the plant.

Sorry, didn't mean to rant.

Fillabong · 05-26-2005, 10:36 PM

Can't wait to see some polyploid plants! Go baby go!

xyz · 05-28-2005, 09:18 AM

Well my excitement is dampened.

Turns out I have 0% germ rate from the seeds I am using.
I will pick this back up when I have some viable seeds to work with.
Sorry for teasing.

Stay tuned.

Quasi · 05-28-2005, 10:01 AM

Colchicine is poisonous and a controlled substance...awhile back I was going to grow some fall crocus, which has colchicine throughout the plant. But I was advised not to mess with them so I just forgot it. It's cool that you have some tabs.

If you have not read this..it is from marijuana botany by r.c. clarke..

scroll down to Polyploidy

http://www.mellowgold.com/grow/mjbot...nabotany3.html

xyz · 05-28-2005, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quasi

Colchicine is poisonous and a controlled substance...awhile back I was going to grow some fall crocus, which has colchicine throughout the plant. But I was advised not to mess with them so I just forgot it. It's cool that you have some tabs.

If you have not read this..it is from marijuana botany by r.c. clarke..

scroll down to Polyploidy

http://www.mellowgold.com/grow/mjbot...nabotany3.html

Yes I have read that. But is a good re-read.
I need a better, larger batch of seeds. Comming soon.
Thanks Quasi.

Xgone. · 05-28-2005, 10:59 AM

hey xyz

glad to see you have begun experimenting! I have been doing a fair amount of reading on colchicine induced polyploid cannabis.

Apparently, when you treat with the colch the germ rate drops significantly.

Im going to go poke around to see if i can find a number for ya!

penguin · 05-28-2005, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xyz

Yes I have read that. But is a good re-read.
I need a better, larger batch of seeds. Comming soon.
Thanks Quasi.

Hi xyz

Is your 0% germ rate for the control group too, or just the colchicine-treated seeds? You should expect < 0.1% of treated seeds to be viable. If you get a higher % of viable seeds, then the dose was probably insufficient to cause polyploidy.

BTW, I would strongly recommend being extremely cautious working with colchicine, and definitely not smoking the first generation of plants grown from treated seeds. Colchicine has very low LD50's for ingestion, inhalation and dermal exposure, and may be associated with neuropathy. It is especially important to note that toxicity varies by route of administration and that the oral toxicity does NOT imply anything about toxicity by inhalation. Unless you can find toxicity data for inhalation in humans, smoking the first generation of plants (including clones) produced from colchine treated seeds is russian roulette.

penguin

Xgone. · 05-28-2005, 11:38 AM

Penguin raises a good point - I just found this on the web

Quote:

Colchicine has been used for many years to induce
the formation of polyploidy in orchids (and other plants).
Polyploids are plants that have multiples of genes; that is
to say, if a plant has n chromosomes, application of
colchicine may induce a plant to have 2n, or more, chromosomes.
This causes many plants to express their genes differently;
in many cases, these expressions are highly desirable.
Colchicine is a nasty chemical; a materials safety
data sheet (MSDS) reveals the following:
Highly toxic; may cause cancer; may cause heritable
genetic damage; very toxic by inhalation, skin contact, or
ingestion; possible teratogen; it targets the liver and kidneys,
and damages the bone marrow, nerves, and cardiovascular system;
mutagen; the oral human lethal dose is calculated to be 86
micrograms (thousandths of a milligram) per kilogram body weight by
one account. This is a nasty, lethal chemical with a rap sheet as long
as my arm. The list of effects with respect to exposure is impressive
to this editor (a chemist by training, geologist by insanity); it
is not suggested that colchicine should be used in the home- a
laboratory setting with proper attention to all safety recommendations
as put forth by the source of the colchicine is highly suggested.
With that in mind, here is a suggested pathway for those
who understand polyploidy, and want to utilize colchicine to
induce polyploids. Play with it at your peril.
Aaron J. Hicks, Editor

Carful xyz, you could smoke some colch and grow a third butt cheek.

I would be particularly worried when mxing the colch into solution. Make sure you dont inhale any vapor - i would venture to guess that colch, like most substances is the most deadly when inhaled.

Seriously though...

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